Can we really Trust Teresa May with a blank cheque?

Did you hear Farron speak today roses? He spoke well in my view. Don't always dismiss others as some kind of idiots for having a different view.

Am talking about Farron, not posters on here Ginny ( politicians are fair game) and I have a feeling he will not be the leader by the next election in five years time.

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How offensive daphnedill

Farron is not statesmanlike - he may be a very nice man, a sincere man, but statesmanlike - no.

And, depending on how this election goes, he may well not be the leader in five years' time.

Anyone is allowed to make an observation like that, there have been plenty of posters stating their visions of how they think the future might be.

The trouble is we all know what we think a statesman/woman looks like/sounds like/should be like, but we're not out there trying to be one.

To return to the OP, I do not trust TM because my vision of a leader is not of one who neglects the poorest in their society; conserves the wealth of the richest to the detriment of the poor; ignores the numbers of people sleeping on our streets each night; leaves the NHS until it's in such a state that they can sell it off to the highest bidder- all those built with our money of course; keeps state schools short of money whilst allocating vast amounts to ridiculous 'free' schools; cuts care to the most vulnerable in society - vulnerable children and the disabled; is blind to the advantages of foreign students in our universities; hasn't promised to replace research funding lost from EU research programmes; is using EU nationals and British people living and working in Europe as pawns in a game.

Isn't it strange how the referendum was Cameron's attempt to control the UKIP and now ukippers are turning blue and getting behind the Tories? That should worry someone from TM's background.

I don't trust them either James, and that is why I'm prepared to listen to the Lib Dems.

Jalima FFS go and find some pearls to clutch. And how anyone can make predictions about 5 years time? Ridiculous.

We thought that Tim Farron came across very well last evening - he actually answered questions and some if those being difficult ones. He certainly has grown into the role of being leader and was talking in a positive manner.

When it comes to people being 'statesmen' or women - there is a real shortage of those at the moment - one of the few we have is Ken Clarke - TM us very far from being a stateswoman! Europe does have people fitting the role far more comfortably.

And, of course,Jalima, The Great Thorn is never offensive. She would not, for instance, use her religion (I assume its hers- why else would she use it?) in a discriminatory way against someone whose religion has a very different viewpoint, so diminishing and discrimination against it.

I think that Daphne over-estimates roses level of knowledge.

Theresa May must not be given a blank cheque on Brexit on other matters. History tells that majority government unfettered in the past have at times force legislation through (eg. Poll Tax) which in time proved wrong. The Lib Dems. and SNP aside no party is even prepared to even say that Brexit may be a bad idea. If as negotiations progress it becomes evident that Brexit was a bad idea then a second referendum with a much better case for and against could be given again to the people. Article 50 can be stopped at any point until we actually leave the EU. TM may be prepared to stand up to the hard line Brexiteers in her government or she may like Margaret Thatcher be got rid of when does not toe their line. Parliament must be prepared flex its muscles when necessary.

Ginny good post. You are right about leaders and leadership. Clement Attlee a man "small in frame and thin in voice" changed the world we live in and have all benefited from. He grew up "not encouraged to have a good conceit" of himself - something that can hardly be said of TM who has posters behind her in her meetings of hand-picked supporters saying "Theresa Mays Team".

Perhaps she does this because some people might remember what the Conservative party has done and what it actually stands for but it seems she really does see herself as a Boudicca or Joan of Arc and, perhaps she is right to do this and feels she can go on fooling as many of the people as much of the time as she can, into believing this is the shape that strong leaders come in. That is not necessarily true. Leaders can be softly spoken not belligerent. Leaders may believe jaw, jaw, rather than war, war and make it work. Leaders may appear strong only to be found to be a man or women of straw.

It seems that many have not been learned anything about life, even the everyday survival knowledge of not judging a book by it's cover.

Tue 09-May-17 08:04:01 discriminating not discrimination

Itis interesting that you mention Clement Attlee. His grandaughter, Jo Roundell Greene, deputy leader of South Somerset District Council is standing ax the LibDem candidate in Yeovil. The seat was lost to a dreadful Tory in 2015 after DC targetted it with huge (questionable) resources. Good luck to Jo.

I am not surprised as the family was (I think) liberal in its outlook and Clement was given a liberal outlook on life from what I have read. The post war Labour government was, in great part, a reaction to the feelings after the war and the more 'right' part of Labour seems to have found it difficult ever since to make their mark in anything like the same way. I do think there is a place for the Corbyn type of Labour but have always thought the gang or four were more honest than the Blairites in separating rather than trying to take over an existing party.

Jalima FFS go and find some pearls to clutch. And how anyone can make predictions about 5 years time? Ridiculous.
Well, they can't of course which is why it makes it so odd that other posters have written paragraphs on how they visualise the future for the UK!

Is it only the doom and gloom merchants who are allowed to do this? Sorry, but it was just a short and pithy statement by rosesarered which caused such extreme reactions; other 'visions of the future' on here are treated with approbation, scepticism or amusement without attracting such offensive replies.

Pearls - I wish, may have to borrow some from another Gransnetter!

I have a feeling
sounds rather like musing to me, not a statement of fact

We can all muse, are we not all allowed to post our musings?

Did you hear Farron speak today roses? He spoke well in my view. Don't always dismiss others as some kind of idiots for having a different view.
This gets funnier and funnier.

rosesarered didn't say he was an idiot or even that his point of view differs from hers, just that he was not statesmanlike.

He isn't, he is like a very nice headmaster.
Apparently, though, if a politician is 'like a headmistress' it is considered to be an insult.

Is that discriminatory?

Errrmmm...not sure what you mean about discriminatory, Jalima, but I think T May comes across as a not very good headteacher. There we go! I've said it!

Found this article today and thought some people might find it interesting.

A. C. Grayling: ‘Brexit is starting to look a lot like a coup’ – EURACTIV.com
eurac.tv/88_I

daphnedill
I have heard her likened to a 'headmistress' in a rather derogatory way, mind you headmaster could be like the one in 'Whack-O' or Mr Squeers!

However, Tim Farron reminds me of a benign headmaster headteacher.

Really good, well written article Welshwife. I would like to quote it all but this rings very true:

So on a restricted electorate, the 51.9% vote for Leave represents 37% of that total electorate, representing about 26% of the total population. ... When people use expressions like ‘the people have spoken’ or ‘the British public has voted to leave’ and so on, they are talking nonsense. This is a very narrow interpretation of the British people.

It is worth reading his description of who was disenfranchised and why.

In answer to a question about avoiding an actual Brexit he says:

Just watch the trend in the polls as an indicator that sentiment is changing. The latest YouGov poll published on 27 April shows that more people now think Brexit is a mistake than not. And this is a trend that will continue as the mess, the muddle and the damage become more and more apparent, as they are day by day.

May is fighting the wrong battle because it is the only battle she feels she can win but, like Cameron before her I believe history will see her as a carpet bagger, looting and plundering the actual mass of the 'British public'.

Is there something wrong with being benign Jalima or do you see 'benign' as a weakness and only those wielding cudgels in order to beat up the poor and disposed as leaders?

ww what an excellent article by Grayling. It gladdens my heart when I see in print exactly how I am feeling and believing.

Undoubtedly the result of the referendum was illegitimate and this is one of the many reasons why so many people feel uneasy at one end and downright hostile about it at the other. "The will of the people" cannot hold up. 23% of the public does not represent a majority. The Tory party can be accused of geremandering and utter incompetence.

I sincerely believe that as time goes on Grayling's prediction will come true.

A C Grayling is an eminent philosopher. He sees things in quite a different way to the vested interests promoting brexit.

I'd be amazed if an article like this ever appeared in the Sun, Daily Mail or Express. It certainly would not suit the agenda of the billionaire proprietors.

The only way he's likely to be mentioned is if he can be turned into some sort of scapegoat, encouraging the "saboteurs" who won't fall into line behind our new dictator.

A first look at Mediocre May's tenure as Home Secretary.

What is very clear from reading about her years as HS is her ability to avoid the flak from what has clearly been at best a mediocre term and at worse utterly hopeless. Every time there was something negative to discuss or questions to be answered in the HoC she sent an underling.

What Mediocre May is very good at is Reputation Management.

Some of her less than competent actions or non-actions

First there was an outcry when it came to out attention that she had allowed border checks on non-EU nationals to be relaxed. This was quickly reversed

Next We had a van, telling illegal immigrants to go home - that went well didn't it?

May next travelled to visit that liberal Saudi Arabian -the interior minister who is responsible for the SA criminal justice system which is infamous for its barbarity and medieval cruelty. Mays visit was to "seek advise"!!!!

The next jewel in her box was the incident of the mis treatment of female asylum seekers at Yars Wood. May added gracefully to the scandal by banning the UN special representative on violence against women from visiting the centre.

The next question in her inbox was why had she failed to institute embarkation checks any U.K. Airports.

May then sat back whilst Afghan interpreters, who had put their lives on the line to assist the UK, were poorly mistreated by the UK.

May fiddled and failed abjectly to identify the child rape rings in various towns, as racist and ethnically motivated hate crimes.

That is before we even begin to look at the police!!

All gleaned from google