Gransnet forums

News & politics

Should I vote SNP?

(84 Posts)
Granny23 Fri 12-May-17 12:39:34

Given that the Labour vote has collapsed in Scotland this GE has become a straight fight between the SNP and the Conservatives, many former, often life long, Labour supporters find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Should they swallow their long standing anathema to the SNP, Labour's major competitors for votes for the last 20 odd years or do the previously unthinkable and vote Conservative.

The Tories appear to be basing their campaign in Scotland entirely on their opposition to a second referendum, giving no firm promises or concrete plans for anything to Scotlan's advantage e.g. support for the Fishing Industry post Brexit or lowering the iniquitous charges for putting power generated in Scotland on to the grid.

Meanwhile the SNP are concentrating on providing a left of centre, powerful voice for Scotland (and the vulnerable across the UK) e,g, leading the struggle for the WASPI women, attacking the 2 child/rape Clause legislation, in a hostile hard right Westminster.

What should socialist or centre left voters do? Vote Tory to protect the Union, or SNP whose policies are more in tune with their own priorities?

Granny23 Fri 12-May-17 12:41:47

Theresa May,s latest, completely unfounded attack on Nichola Sturgeon - www.thecanary.co/2017/05/11/theresa-may-has-smeared-nicola-sturgeon-again-this-time-by-literally-making-a-story-up-video/

Anniebach Fri 12-May-17 13:04:35

Granny23, I do feel for you. If in your position I would vote SNP, there is a hope Scotland may not vote for indepenance, if you do have a second you can vote against . So difficult being a Celt isn't it at times 😀

grannypiper Fri 12-May-17 13:25:16

I am in the quandary, but just can not vote snp. For the first time in my life i may not vote.

Granny23 Fri 12-May-17 13:42:45

Grannypiper Perhaps you could go along to any Hustings or Public Meetings to suss out the individual candidates, then base your vote on who you think will be the best MP for your area rather than their Party affiliation?

paddyann Fri 12-May-17 14:49:58

there is no alternative to the SNP in Scotland,the others are just branches of the Westminster parties and dont have our interests at heart.Sure they're not perfect but what party is? We get a much better deal as taxpayers here than the rest of the UK What is you you dont agree with grannypiper is it the Independence question? This election isn't about Independence its about Scotland ,our services and people.Better performing NHS,more social housing ..not just promised ..BUILT, free tuition for higher education .60 year olds still get their bus passes and much more .And no I'm not "brainwashed"

Jane10 Fri 12-May-17 14:58:59

Unbelievable that you swallow all that SNP propaganda. Did you read the latest figures on how education standards have plummeted in Scotland for example? Or can you somehow explain it all away somehow? Similarly the state of policing, the minus £338 million situation re oil? I could go on but there's no point really, you two just don't want to hear anyone doing down the SNPs disastrous 10 years in government.

paddyann Fri 12-May-17 15:32:24

Jane10 UNBELIEVABLE you still swallow all the unionist propoganda ,the SNP have ONLY been in power for 10 years...thats a lot of mismanaged decades to sort out..look at the PFI LABOUR built schools that will cost a fortune for years to come ,The LABOUR Tram mismagement in Edinburgh,the Holyrood fiasco courtesy of Donald Dewar etc etc etc .The police NEEDED reform ,there were far too many chiefs and not enough indians as my granny would have said ,crime is DOWN 42% on the figures 10 years ago ...and yes I do have a lot to do with police so I know thats a fact IF WM would stop charging our emegency forces VAT that would be a big help...BUT as with ALL WM decisions its one rule for some and a different one for others NI has ONE police force and ONE Fire service and thay aren't charged the £25MILLION a year we are .Open your eyes Jane 10 and see the truth thats staring right back at you.The SNP have done more for Scotland in 10 years than Labour did in 10 DECADES .OOPs as for OIL thats the OIL thats safer in the hands of WM ..as said by Cameron before the Scottish referendum? The oil that Westminster manages ...until there were propblems last year when they didn't want to know !!

Salmo Fri 12-May-17 15:59:34

grannypiper, please use your vote. If you do not want a second Scottish independence referendum, a vote for any of the other parties will demonstrate that. I cannot vote either SNP or Conservative, so will vote Lib Dem

Granny23 Fri 12-May-17 16:22:04

Jane 10 This thread is for undecided former Labour voters, not for dyed in the wool Tories. Instead of hurling SNP BAD accusations perhaps you could give us a resume of Tory policies which would make life better for people living in Scotland, manifesto commitments (not vague promises) to protect rural and fishing communities from the effects of a hard Brexit or any movement on the excessive transmission tariffs imposed on low product cost Scottish renewable energy which are depressing the market and discouraging investment.

I would very much welcome an explanation as to why Police,Fire and Rescue Services in Scotland are charged VAT on equipment, vehicles, uniforms and office services when their counterparts elsewhere in the UK are exempt. Maybe even a reasoned defence of the Two Child policy, particularly as it affects divorced women who remarry and wish to have (or accidentally have) another child with their new spouse, whereas men can have serial relationships, producing 2 children in each one, which could lead to umpteen step siblings each in receipt of tax credits via their mothers. This has been the subject of many questions raised on doorsteps and at stalls by ordinary people who, whilst recognising that there are a small number of annoying benefit cheats see it as an attack on the poor, the vulnerable and those who have lost good jobs through redundancy, or health issues. People see that the wealthy will be able to continue to have as many children as they wish, while those who are or might be in the future, reliant on benefits will have to limit their family to 2 or risk being unable to feed or clothe the 3rd or subsequent children. Feminist outrage has focused on the 'rape clause' but the entire policy is abhorrent - blatant social engineering.

I would be grateful if you could explain why this is seen to be necessary and fulfils T May's pledge to govern for all the people in the UK.

Jane10 Fri 12-May-17 18:44:26

SNP issued blinkers and earplugs firmly in place I see granny23 and paddyann jolly good. grin

Granny23 Fri 12-May-17 19:26:39

On the contrary - Both eyes and ears are wide open waiting for you (or anyone) to offer some response to my questions or indeed any reason why Scottish residents are going to benefit from 5 more years of hard right Tory rule and a hard Brexit.

Thingmajig Fri 12-May-17 20:12:27

I think I'll be voting for the Lib Dems as our previous MP was one and seemed to me to do a good job for my area.

I personally will never vote SNP as they seem to be intent on pressing on and on for independence whilst having no sound economic case for it. Not then, and certainly not now!
If you want a 60% plus basic tax rate (as in Denmark which was heralded as a great example of how a small country (same size as Scotland) functions at the last referendum) in order to sustain the country, then go ahead!

whitewave Fri 12-May-17 20:15:46

I really am in no position to comment as I don't follow Scottish politics, but it seems an incredibly difficult choice. If you are remain and for staying in the U.K. who do you vote for???!!! Impossible.

MawBroon Fri 12-May-17 20:35:04

I would seriously look at your candidates (remembering that you have a second bite of the cherry in your Holyrood elections.)
Whom do you respect ? Whomdo,you think has the bst interests of the country, the whole country, at heart?
Then go with your conscience.

MawBroon Fri 12-May-17 20:36:24

"Who do you think.... etc"

blush,

Granny23 Fri 12-May-17 23:48:11

Thingmajig Bearing in mind that the highest rate of Income Tax is of no concern to the majority of people and that the Danes have better public services and benefits, higher tax thresholds and more deductible expenses before tax than we do then I don't think they are hard done by. I concede that the HIGHEST rate was at one point 61% but has now dropped to 59% - other rates as follows.

Tax rate
The Danish taxation system is progressive. The taxable income in Denmark is generally computed as the sum of personal income and capital income less general deductions. Married couples are taxed separately. In Denmark are local tax and state tax. The tax rate is from 0 % to 59 %. The state tax rate is from 5.48 % to 15 %. Municipal income tax is levied on taxable income and varies according to the municipality, between 20.14 % and 26.71 %. In Copenhagen, the country’s capital, the municipal tax rate is 24 %. Non-resident individuals are taxed at the state and municipal levels. Taxation is base on categories of income:

Tax Base (in DKK)
0 %
Up to 41 000
37.48 %
41 001 – 279 800
43.48 %
279 801 – 335 800
59 %
335 801 and over
Allowance
In Denmark everyone has a personal allowance. If a person does not have an income greater than his or her personal allowance, he does not have to pay income tax. Personal allowance is 41 000 DKK (young people under 18 years have a personal allowance of 30 000 DKK)

Deductions
Typical tax-deductible expenses in Denmark are the commuting allowance, unemployment insurance fund subscription, payment to an early retirement pension scheme, trade union subscriptions and other wage earner expenses.

Irena1960 Tue 16-May-17 14:25:04

It's old hat now to blame everything on Westminster. Snp have had a fair go in Scotland and made a mess of it. They have shown themselves up for what they are and it's not a pretty sight. I am no lover of the tories but labour are worse. I used to follow the snp and went to their rallies when I was a teenager, the thought of independence used to fill me with enthusiasm and hope that was then this is now. I will never vote snp as long as I live, I hope the scottish people see through them, jane10 I took my blinkers off many moons ago but so many haven't.

varian Tue 16-May-17 17:22:06

The SNP must be held to account for the appalling record of the last ten years of the Scottish Government.

We all know how shameful the decline in educational standards has been, the shambles of the centralised police force and their failed IT systems, and the decline in the Scottish economy, but what about the service that is so dear to the hearts of most voters - the NHS? Check this out-

www.heraldscotland.com/news/15023253.NHS_complaints___39_more_than_double__39__in_decade_since_SNP_came_to_power/

Granny23 Wed 17-May-17 01:35:16

www.snp.org/record?mc_cid=3a32d547ed&mc_eid=d210e33122

I am well aware that some posters will dismiss this list of SNP achievements during their 10 years in power as simply PPP (Party Political Propaganda). My hope is that posters with open minds will take a look and realise that there are many concrete things (e,g, Borders Railway, Forth Crossing, extended nursery provision, Fergusson's Shipyard and Fort Williams smelter etc,) which we can see with our own eyes and know to be true. Then, perhaps, wonder why none of these achievements have been lauded by the media, who prefer to find fault at ever turn.

Take the Herald article re the rise in the number of complaints to NHS Scotland, which focuses on one statistic (BAD) rather that another - that satisfaction with the Service is significantly higher in Scotland than in England and Wales (Good). Nor do they see fit to mention that an improved, more accessible complaints system might have contributed to a rise in the number of complaints.

FarNorth Wed 24-May-17 18:09:51

There are a lot of impressive achievements in that list, Granny23.

I agree with those who have said "Please use your vote" to anyone who is unsure.

If you can't bring yourself to vote Tory, but don't want to vote SNP, then voting for the candidate whom you think is best will show her/him that you support them and, if enough people in your area do the same, they might even get elected!

(Even spoiling your ballot paper deliberately would mean you are counted in the statistics of turnout, rather than seeming not to care.)

POGS Wed 24-May-17 20:57:41

Granny 23

Should I vote SNP?

You are pro Independence are you not?

I would vote SNP if I were you confused.

Jalima1108 Wed 24-May-17 23:28:21

Could there be a Lib Dem revival in Scotland?

Granny23 Fri 26-May-17 10:20:37

POGS Of course I will vote SNP - why change the habit of a lifetime?

I started this thread (and gave it a similar name to the other threads running for the other parties) in response to the question most asked on doorsteps and at street stalls. I was hoping that there would be some sensible discussion (and there has been) re the dilemma faced by former Labour voters wondering where to place their precious vote. Still waiting to hear any positive reasons to vote Tory. Their entire campaign in Scotland seems to be SNPBAD, SNPBAD, SNPBAD ad nauseum and their leaflets are all about stopping a 2nd referendum (I thought Mrs May had already done that?)

Jalima I do think the LibDems will get more votes this time than last GE when they were suffering from being in coalition with the Tories. However I cannot imagine that they will take any more than 1 or 2 seats. The smaller parties suffer from lack of money, Media coverage and having few footsoldiers to get round the enormous rural constituencies where Liberal support is strongest. They do have a platform on TV debates and local hustings but (I realise I will be panned for mentioning this) the suspension of campaigning over the past week has seen the mass cancellation of hustings, media slots, stalls, media coverage, canvassing and leaf letting (although paid for campaign materials have continued to arrive by post, to the detriment of the smaller parties' campaigns.

paddyann Fri 26-May-17 11:39:32

can it be pointed out that the European education authority has saiid Scotland is the BEST educated country in Europe ....yes there are blips but tell me which country or government doesn't have those ? Our police are still at the same levels they were at BEFORE austerity and in England there have been tens of thousands axed ..hence the need for troop on the streets over 95% satisfaction with the NHS in Scotland ,42% drop in crime ,mitigated the bedroom tax ,still provides FREE personal care for the elderly and much more...it is a very impressive record for a government who have had their budget cut yearly .Look at the rest of the UK and how they have suffered under first the coalition and now the tories and tell me we haven't been shielded from the worst