Why the reluctance to answer questions and face the real electorate ?

Don't doctors earn a lot more once they have trained?
In fact, I would think doctors would be one of the groups who do actually pay off their loans, as opposed to nurses who very rarely will, unless they become matrons.

Actually, the Labour party idea is to get rid of all fees, not just those of nurses and doctors.
Then we might have more people wanting to be nurses again.

A question; how much do doctors earn when they qualify and how much do nurses earn?? Having a degree as a nurse doesn't actually make the job any different to how it used to be. How can anyone justify a having to pay to train for a job that involves wiping bottoms on a regular basis [or do nurses not have to do that sort of thing now?].

If I were still a child, &I was promised unlimited sweets , no strict bed time, could be as rude as I liked with no fear of consequences & that I could have anything I asked for without having to earn it I would be a very happy child indeed ( but not a very likeable one!) But I am not a child & I know that nothing is for nothing it has to be paid for , I prefer a parent Ohhps Politician who admits that & doesn't promise the earth knowing it can't be delivered.

Qualified nurses do not wipe bottoms or clean up sick, the HCAs do that. I hasten to add when I was nursing sisters and staff nurses did everything that the junior staff did, would not ask someone to do things that we were not prepared to roll our sleeves up for.

We certainly wiped a lot of bottoms when I trained as a nurse Tegan2 but I'll think you'll find none doing so now. As far as I can see they are taking over many of the tasks that junior doctors did, I suspect because it's much cheaper. Nursing Assistants do the hands on care now for a pittance.

Sorry harrigran X post

Fully qualified nurses start on salaries of £21,692 rising to £28,180 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. Salaries in London attract a high-cost area supplement. With experience, in positions such as nurse team leader on Band 6, salaries progress to £26,041 to £34,876.
And much higher if anyone progresses further.
A nursing degree takes 3 or 4 years then post-registration courses may be required to progress paid for by the employer in most cases.

In the most junior hospital trainee post of Foundation year 1 your basic starting salary is £26,614. This increases in Foundation year 2 to £30,805. If you're a doctor starting your specialist training in 2017 your basic starting salary starts at £36,461 and progresses to £46,208.
Currently doctors in the UK may train for up to 16 years before qualifying. 5 years for their degree (or six if you intercalate and take a useful subject like, say, History of Medicine), 2 years for a post-graduate foundation course, and then 3 to 8 years in specialist training.

When I was in hospital after surgery the staff nurse and I between us managed to have a little accident and she promptly cleaned me up and changed the bed.
I didn't hear any of them saying 'I don't do sick or wee'. They were all lovely.

No fees for doctors

No fees for nurses

No fees for university students

Free school dinners for all children regardless of parents income

Free music lessons for all children

Free childcare

All paid for by 5% of tax payers , best hope they stay in this country, still , it can be borrowed so no problems

Exactly Annie. No wonder the gullible are voting for him in their droves...

and the lucky 5% will be fleeing the country in droves and taking their money and their businesses elsewhere.

Doctors' skills are different from nurses', their training takes longer, and they have to make more risky decisions so, yes, they do start on higher pay. Which is not at all to denigrate what nurses do.

Annie I went to a day nursery when I was 3- it was free- care from 8am to 6pm. I went to teacher training college and it was free and I got a grant, I knew many nurses, their training was free, and even a few medical students, their training was free, and the poorest were given grants for their living costs. Education and childcare is one of the basic requirements of a modern civilised society. Just because you have swallowed whole the Tory hype that we can't afford such things doesn't mean the rest of us believe it. A well educated, qualified work force pays more tax, childcare means women return to work, use their qualifications and pay tax. The alternative is a poorly trained population in low pay jobs dependent on in-work benefits and food banks.

How was that all funded back then? This is an honest enquiry not a derogatory comment BTW.

Anyone see the interview with IDS where he says, with regards to the manifesto, 'what we are trying to get away with' instead of 'what we are trying to get away from' ...

Good question, Jane.

Funded by taxpayers, just as it should be now.

When my sister went to a free nursery, my mother went to work and paid tax. Very simple and perfect.

I mentioned that on another thread, Tegan. Unfortunately can't seem to get a link to it.

Through taxes.The biggest expansion and provision of nursery education ever happened during the war years when nurseries were provided to get women to work in munitions etc. At the end of the war these nurseries carried on for a few more years providing care for children without fathers. In my case my mum was ill so I was given a place. My dad took me on his way to work and collected me after he finished. These nurseries closed in the 50s
Grants came from local authorities and were means tested.
Local authorities also gave clothing grants to poor families if their child won a grammar school place.
All provided when we were a poor country devastated from WW2
Oh and we had a cleaner as well because mum couldn't do housework (paid for)

I was interested in your answers Trisher so I Googled tax rates in 1970s. Was very surprised at how incredibly high the top rate was: 90% on investment income for example. I really don't think any government could get away with that today. Obviously the government back then didn't either. Finding the happy medium where just enough taxes are raised without driving out the sort of people who generate money and create employment, hence more potential tax payers, must be extremely tricky.

www.indy100.com/article/iain-duncan-smith-freudian-slip-bbc-breakfast-tory-ids-conservative-bbc-7771026

For you, Tegan.

Wow! Look at this.

www.indy100.com/article/british-fighters-syria-isis-kurds-ypg-jeremy-corbyn-vote-labour-election-2017-7771246

This is why Mayhem should avoid answering questions. She could have lost lots of votes again by telling that nurse there was no magic money tree.

www.indy100.com/article/magical-money-tree-theresa-may-nurse-bbc-question-time-pay-rise-7770611

www.indy100.com/article/magic-money-tree-brexit-350-million-nhs-conservative-labour-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-7770821

I'm talking 1948-70 Jane10 no idea what tax rates were but it was a period when most people believed in supporting the less well off and providing education and opportunity for them. We managed it when people had very little in the way of material possessions, so I wonder why we can't fund it when everyone has so much more ?

Thatcher introduced individualism.