Why the reluctance to answer questions and face the real electorate ?

Tax rates were very high indeed post war. Life was much harder then and there were much lower living costs and, basically, much less to actually buy.
There were many elderly people living off the interest from capital who were desperately impoverished by the high taxation of what was referred to as 'unearned income' so winners and losers in those days. (My Dad was a doctor and always worried about the legion of proud old ladies living on what they had left).
The immediate post war socialist movement changed radically as we moved into nationally more prosperous times.
I love the mass observation diaries and really enjoy reading about real life back then. Sorry, have moved off topic but I suppose then was then and now is now and direct comparison isn't really feasible.

There were also many elderly people like my grandparents living on very small pensions in slum accommodation and some like my grandfather dying of TB.

That level of benefits wasn't sustainable though. I don't think it's realistically possible now.

That level of benefits invested in an educated population who contributed much to the society we have now. The alternative is an uneducated, low paid workforce and is of course what the Tories want, they will then be able to cut taxes, cut state provision and allow the richest to prosper whilst the poorest survive if they can.

It is if the economy is properly managed Jane. If you have a high earning economy many things are possible. It is easy to understand if you think of the current economy where so many people do not earn enough and have to be supported by credits. Upskill the people, invest in the infrastructure and ensure that companies invest too. And ... as Labour has suggested, move the balance of industry more towards making things and away from services.

A high earning country can afford decent benefits and is likely to need fewer. As I have said before, the Conservatives have kept us in 'austerity' for far longer than was necessary. They have lied to you Jane. We did not need this extreme poverty; it was foisted on us for ideological reasons and you, and many others, have bought their lies. We might not have been at the heights many of us would like to see at this point but without the mantra of austerity we would all be better of and, perhaps, being rather kinder to our neighbours who aren't.

Those levels of taxation would lead to the flight of the wealth generators from the UK. People and their money and resources are much more mobile and globally oriented. The entrepreneurs and people who set up businesses and create employment are what we need and we need them to stay not scare them off with massive tax rises.

Oh God. I'm off.

Where would they go Jane10? We have one of the lowest levels of corporation tax in the developed world, even if it is put up it will still be better than the others.

That's what people believe when they by the Tory lies though Trisher. Amazing really.

Where are you off to, Jane? Going to leave with the wealth creators?
The level of benefits is not sustainable?
What do you suggest we do, starve people so they don't claim benefits because they are dead?
Oh, yes, I forgot, that's what Mayhem does at the moment, isn't it?
How dare people be poor and want housing and feeding?

home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/tax-rates-online.html

Corporate tax rates on here. They can all move to tax havens and pay nothing, but they will not be able to trade here.

I should think Jane means off this thread.
Buy Tory lies? Some people are buying Labour lies thinking that all things will be free and wonderful if only Corbyn got into power.Big mistake!

Ahem! The wealth generators are the people who create the wealth ie the workers.

However, the biggest wealth generator of all at the moment is the assets you already own. People are already squirrelling the profits from other people's wealth creation abroad or into "tax efficient" schemes. Property ownership creates more wealth than working for many people. People can't take their property abroad and most will choose to stay in the UK, because they actually get a good deal.

I'm not suggesting that we do it totally, because I do think that people need incentives to work harder or be more entrepreneurial, but if the total wealth of the UK were to be divided evenly, there would be plenty so that nobody went without basics.

No, they don't think they're free. Labour has costed its manifesto.

But at least we are talking about what Jane says she believes RAR.

You, rather like your beloved Tories are - to be polite - making things up. No one on has come close to saying they think "all things will be free and wonderful if only Corbyn got into power".

You have reached a new level RAR as only you can.

I'm surprised at you dj. I thought you knew me better than to make personal comments like that. I'm certainly not off with the wealth makers. I was genuinely pondering historical taxation, why the levels rose (to fund the war mainly). How our economy and expectations grew and changes were incrementally introduced and why. Cross referencing this with human nature leads me to believe that those levels of taxation just plain wouldn't be tolerated. I know in an ideal world all would be completely different but we don't live in such a utopia and must just try to get on.

I'm explaining my thought process in detail because you just seem to attribute it to my being a Tory - but I'm not!! These are my real opinions. As I've said before on GN I've voted Labour and Liberal Democrats in the past. The sort of vitriol being put forward on the forum is desperately off putting and not doing socialism any favours. I had said I'm off as soon as I'd read who else was on this thread.

Elizabeth Warren quote: “There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

So right

Agreed, GracesGran.
Roses, can you please tell us who on this thread, or any other political thread, or in your vast acquaintance of Labour supporters has said that they expect everything to be free?
I doubt whether you will find one person who thinks that.
We have all the figures we need to make our assessments.

I've just heard Mayhem say again that it is your party's intention to reduce taxes for ordinary working families. That makes me think that those who vote for her want something for nothing.
What figures do you base your faith in May on?

We?

Jane, I'm sure you wouldn't dream of not paying your plumber for a service provided.

Taxation is higher than it was 100 years ago, because as a country we receive more. The most expensive services we have received as a country are universal healthcare, pensions and education, which are how about half of the taxation received by the Treasury are used.

Somebody (can't remember which thread) said that she knew somebody from Tanzania who is shocked at what we receive. I Googled Tanzania and discovered that it has a life expectancy in the mid 60s, an illiteracy rate of about 35% and no meaningful healthcare, unless you're very wealthy. Personally, I prefer what we have here in the UK and it's because we've invested in society that we have a wealthier one.

GGM2 just as I think your posts can't get any more condescending/ pompous/ po faced, ......they do!

I agree that we are unlikely to live in Utopia Jane, although I doubt there would be any taxation if we did but, on the other hand we do not need to descend into hell either which is where the nurse who was so close to tears and the partially blind lady with mental health problems must have felt May was happy to consign them as she seemed to have no understanding of the challenges of their lives and how her government had added to them.

Oh, what a shame RAR. I try so hard where you are concerned.

I expect we all want something for nothing . At the moment, there are some people in this country who receive a lot for doing very little - and they're not the demonised "benefit scroungers". They're the people who already have wealth and can sit back and watch their pile get even bigger.