London.....Incidents at London Bridge, Borough Market and Vauxhall.

That's a good idea djen re the GC thread started under Jo Cox's name and a very fitting place for a thread like this.

I am surprised HQ haven't been on to suggest it.

In the meantime, being political, here's a good article about the biggest threat to our national security.

kittysjones.wordpress.com/2017/06/05/the-biggest-threat-to-our-national-security-and-safety-is-authoritarian-conservative-posturing-and-their-arms-deals-to-despotic-states/

Just looking at twitter and apparently one of the killers in London had actually appeared on a channel 4 documentary!

Yes, I saw that, whitewave.
May can't say she wasn't warned about what would happen if she cut police numbers and money.
She called it scaremongering.

Crying wolf. She ignored not just the police federation, but all the senior officers including the met chief.

She cannot shrug off her reponsibilty for cutting police numbers

I watched the channel 4 programme, it was chilling. Wasn't there a gransnet discussion at the time? Genuine question - we have laws against hate speech, or making threats to kill. I recognise the complexity for police and CPS but I wonder why the man wasn't charged with something.

Up to 40% of Met police due to be cut in next 4 years

Johnson made it clear that they are not going to look again at the cuts.

Yes, Iam64, I wondered, as well, although I didn't see the original documentary. I wondered also why, at the very least, the participants were not at the top of the terror watch list. Someone previously used "tentacles" to describe these sub-groups. Undoubtedly, they are now so numerous ( and able to sprout seemingly spontaneously) that, as has been stated, our police force is too overstretched to deal with all the possibilities, despite their good work.

I understand the legal reasons, but am dismayed this morning, by the number of suspects that have been released without charge.

Surely suspects should be release without charge if there is no evidence of guilt ?

In the news this morning. One of the London Bridge terrorists was a follower of Anjem Choudary whose 'organisation' is linked to the recruitment of British terrorist suspects. The twitter thread I'm posting is from a clearly very upset Muslim:

So #KhuramButt, #LondonBridge attacker, was a supporter of Anjem Choudary?
The British media has a lot 2 answer for

Do follow the link and read the thread.

twitter.com/mrjammyjamjar3/status/871829837262061568

yes, I heard that on the news last night MaizieD
no surprise really

And as I said a couple of days ago it took 16 yrs before they locked him up. And, he will be out in 3 years.

Nobody can be followed 24 hours a day for years in case they do something even if they are known to the police and intelligence services.
Nor can they be held in case they do something ( internment) it wasn't liked when NI used it.
This particular man was considered low level ( but decided to be become high level one day) what can be done to stop that?
Without evidence of wrong doing or plotting nobody can be charged or held for very long.
That's our fair society and how it works.

I wasn't talking about Choudary btw but the attacker on London Bridge.

what can be done to stop that?

I think that part of 'what could be done' would be to stop giving the oxygen of publicity (lovely cliche ) to those who promote hatred, as detailed in the twitter thread. I realise there is a fine line to be drawn between informing people about contrary views and keeping them in ignorance of them but such deference to the extremist views as detailed in the thread is completely unnecessary.

I must say that the sight or TM saying that terrorists would get longer sentences made me feel a bit sick - in which prisons might all these extra people be held? - with what staff? There is simply no capacity; and the outsourcing of these institutions means that they are poorly monitored. Goodness knows what terrorist networks are sitting in our prisons.

We have to catch them first before they blow themselves up, by which time it is all distressingly too late

Rar is right to say it's impossible and wrong, to put surveillance on every individual who makes an inflammatory, even illegal comment. Risk assessment of any kind is fraught with difficulties. We also cherish our freedoms so any changes will need very careful planning
Luckygirl's comments about longer prison sentences, as promised by Mrs May are also right imo. The influence of extremists in our existing prisons has been causing problems for tears. There are wings in some of the high security prisons where Muslim extremists are held separately from the rest of the prisoners. There has been talk of building a new prison, specifically for The fanatics.
I'm sorry to be so negative but we do need a different approach. I don't have any easy answers but segregating our children in faith schools doesn't help.

Iam64 I was thinking the same about faith schools I really do think that they need serious consideration. Remember the fight between May and Gove?

As most of the terrorists end up dead I don't suppose that the threat of longer prison sentences weighs particularly heavy with them.

If anybody is genuinely interested in hearing a ' non political ' debate/comment on terrorism may I point you to yesterdays Daily Politics programme.

There was an informative section which involved interviews with Lord Carlisle who was the official reviewer of terrorism legislation and Nazir Afzal, former chief executive of the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners (APCC).

I know Lord Carlisle was a Lib Dem peer who resigned the party whip and is now a non-affiliated peer after long finding himself “at odds” with senior figures on security issues but he is a respected commentator on terrorism and to my mind he spoke in a non partisan manner on the Daily Politics programme.

There is no such thing as a non political debate. People are quite fond of saying that when they agree with the speaker.

Sigh

Perhaps some posters would be interested in listening to valid /informative comments on terrorism Whitewave , it can happen you know.