Democracy hahahaha

I'm inclined to think that people's welfare is vastly more important than money
Unfortunately I think that people's welfare is dependent on money Alie
So a sound economy should be the underlying foundation of a caring society!

Luckygirl I agree

Unfortunately the Lib Dems will not dream of enter into a coalition as Nick Clegg did so gleefully last time and sold his soul.

MaisieD: It is very like your home finances. If you spend more than you earn you are in debt. If you spend less you have funds left over. When spending equals income then your yearly finances are in balance.

Governments through a finance minister decide if they want a surplus or they are going to borrow. This rarely works out as planned. Some budgets are described as fiscally neutral - that is they intend to balance.

Our year on year fiscal results have been overspend and therefore an increase in the long term debt. Until we get a fiscal surplus we cannot have spare funds to reduce the long term debt. Does that help?

A simple guide to the production of money:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4eGTY6RWeg

There is a protest tomorrow in Parliament Square against May and the DUP.

Good to know that the activism is continuing

CardiffJaguar

The national economy is NOT like home finances. Please watch the video I've just posted. It really isn't that complicated.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/news/2017/6/9/first-past-the-post-is-finished

Makevotesmatter running the protest.

Fitzy, your definition of "right" is not, I believe, one that most would use. This is from a definition which I would agree with.

Right wing beliefs value tradition, they are about equity, survival of the fittest, and they believe in economic freedom. They typically believe that business shouldn’t be regulated, and that we should all look after ourselves. Right wing people tend believe they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s education or health service. They believe in freedom to succeed over equality.

In the UK the main right wing parties are the Conservative (or Tory) Party, and UKIP (who focus on the UK not being a part of the European Union). They believe that if you have more money, you should get to keep it, and buy better education and health services for yourself. They believe that businesses should be less regulated, and that the more money they earn, they’ll bring more benefits to the country. In 2008 2/3 of Tory MPs didn’t think climate change was a priority, but their leadership says it’s important. They are more likely to focus on energy security (oil and gas are set to run out very soon, and they won’t want to rely on other countries).

Personally I still lean to the 'left' and would agree with this definition:

Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail.

In the UK the main left wing parties are the Labour Party and the Green Party. They believe in making laws that protect women, ethnic minorities, and gay people against discrimination. They believe that we should tax rich people more to support people less well off, and they believe we should regulate big businesses so they serve people’s interests. They believe that a good welfare system means people are healthier, more able to work, and will put more back into the economy. They also typically believe country-wide tax-funded action on climate change is necessary.

Their's isn't tomorrow. It's June 24th.

Is that the DUP protest dj?

I see some posters think that the young can research before voting. That is not the point; the point is experience. Most of us here can remember the 3 day week and similar problems when we were close to losing electricity for long periods. There are many examples from the past when politicians have put us in jeopardy because of bad/stupid policies and/or decisions.

There was a time when we had politicians in Westminster who were communists and were keen on Stalin and having the UK follow him. Reading about such matters can never be the same as experiencing them live.

So I maintain that it is the lack of experience that enables the young to vote for what they hear today. Politicians promises are not worth even putting down on paper. If the young got the politicians they think they would get they would have to bear the consequences. Unfortunately the rest of us would have to suffer as well.

metro.co.uk/2017/06/09/tories-to-form-coalition-government-with-anti-gay-marriage-dup-6697769/

Cardiff, some of these kids are growing up in poverty, even though both parents work. they are experiencing education under the tories, seeing arts and sports scrapped. They work on zero hour contracts and they will never, ever have the opportunity to own their own home.

They have no experience of the the seventies, just like you have no experience of what it is like to be young in tory Britain.

I think our generation would be very arrogant if we felt our experience was 'better' than any other persons experience young or old.
I live next to a couple of about my age and am very aware of their wholly different experience of life to mine. Young people, as LPS says have experience of being young today that is totally different to mine. In my younger days we did not have the gig economy; I did not have to decide whether my career would be protean or borderless (I didn't know what that meant either until the middle aged person I gave birth to told me). I had to decide between marriage and a career. Why do they need to know about that? The world where that was the case has gone.

You are right CardiffJaguar to say experience is important too but the fact that it differs is not relevant. The fact that some politicians could only talk to the experience of the old is.

I cannot see that experience is more important than knowledge. Some of the young value it, some don't. Some older people keep using all the tools available to research and continue learning and some ossify the learning they gained earlier. All these things count but not one single older persons vote counts for more than a younger persons - and their life is still to come. We have had the majority of ours and should allow them to shape their world and not be so arrogant as to think we could shape it better for them. We have only to look at some of the things we have allowed to be done to know that isn't true.

I've just read your post twice GracesGran, so bloody true.

It's all about not giving in to your prejudices.

I really dispair of those that think the young do not have brains

Marie just going back in the thread a bit - I was bowing out but have managed to get an internet connection out here in the sticks!
GG I agree mine isn't the definition of right most would use. But I think it's the right one!

gg good post

Of course the young have brains.My neice has plenty,but unfortunately left them behind the other day when she posted an 'open' letter to my 95 year old mum on Facebook exhorting her for the sake of all the public sector workers in her family to vote Labour. My mum doesn't use Facebook and so had no recourse to reply,my neice later appologised to my DDs when they objected and pointed out their grandma would have been deeply offended by the patronising lecture if she had been shown it.Which our neice confessed she hoped one of us would do.My mum was a nurse /midwife all her working life,is very well read ,informed intelligent and sharp as a tack.Uses her I pad daily and loves a political debate.With the wisdom of experience,and having voted Labour in the past and regretted it,and vowing she would never do so again, I also think her old brains and experience count.Our DCs have great respect for her oppinion and have certainly taken on board the views she has on Labours track record.Consequently one of our DCs stuck with her decision to back Corbyns manifesto, the other two after much deliberation didn't. Tbh my neices rant,plus constant hectoring to the point of almost bullying on social media from the rampant Corbynistas in their peer group proved counter productive.

The problem is that the Conservatives - the UKs right wing party - would be more likely to agree with mine than yours Fitzy. That is what they believe in and what they tell us they believe in. Join the Tory party or vote for them and that is what you are signing up to even if you would rather it wasn't.

So, what is Labours track record?

Who, what, why LSP?

As a grandmother I would have been proud of my Grandaughters passion for politics. We don't have to agree with them just encourage them to make their own minds up. Social media is the future for gathering and sharing information. I am afraid the newspapers influence on us is in serious decline. Thank goodness

^MaisieD: It is very like your home finances*

No it isn't. It isn't at all like your home finances. That is the big myth that Maggie Thatcher promoted and which economists try so hard to dispel (because they are the experts and they know differently).

But it is a nice simple concept which everyone can identify with and has served the tories and right wing media very well over the years. Despite the fact that, curiously enough, the tories record on the UK economy is far worse than Labour's.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/adnan-aldaini/running-a-government-budg_b_7585914.html

michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/running-economy-is-like-running.html

speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2016/09/20/what-if-the-national-economy-is-like-a-household-budget/

anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/national-economies-not-like-family.html

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/06/01/37382/ (Particularly the comments)

I read the phrase above about Labours track record and I wonder what that meant, to other people. There are pros and cons with any government but I've seen the most gains when Labour have governed. Not personally, but in my community.