Democracy hahahaha

GG I'm sure many tories think as you say. But I'm sure many Labour voters think in a similar selfish fashion. I do like the enthusiasm of the young - I remember my own youthful socialist optimism. But I'm afraid I'm rather more cautious, a bit less optimistic, and sadly a bit more cynical in my outlook these days. I just don't beleive in Corbynomics.

I enjoyed that video, dd. Everyone ought to watch it!

Pleased that my interpretation of the benefits of government spending are the same as hers!

I just don't beleive in Corbynomics.

Have you watched dd's video, Fitzy ?

They aren't enthusiastic, they're desperate.

A lot of the youth vote are young parents and they see what is happening to their children's schools.

Just for those who haven't yet seen it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4eGTY6RWeg

Ann Pettifor is an internationally respected economist fitzy. The video isn't about "Corbynomics".

and by the way what is happening schools is bloody awful.

Why are we putting our kids through this?

Who, what, why LSP? No one will be able to understand what that is about.

Apologies GracesGran, I wonder off Mumsnet and there are different rules,the threads move at a different pace.

And if you haven't seen this video, it's also worth watching:

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/06/04/austerity-has-been-a-disaster-imposed-by-choice/

Steve Keen isn't a Corbynista either.

I would prefer May to stay, if she goes who would form a government? Heaven help us all if Corbyn gets the chance, the man is a complete train crash.

DD, WW, I will definitely look at it. But in the meantime just read that Ruth Davidson's Scottish Tories are likely to press TM to opt for a softer Brexit with the single market a priority. Interesting times indeed!

In what way Maddy629?

Under his leadership, Labour has gained seats, while the Conservatives have lost seats with "strong and stable" May as leader.

Maybe you think that the people who voted Labour don't know what they're doing.

Staying in the single market means freedom of movement, so why don't we just stay where we are?

Yes, I read that the Scottish Tories are to 'break away' from Theresa May's influence. They are completely opposed to working with the DUP. I predict another election in the Autumn.

I love the way people make sweeping judgements with any facts or proof to back that up e.g. Corbyn is a 'complete train crash'. Doesn't mean anything does it?

Can you have an incomplete train crash?

Presumably that person wa just trying to insult and that's the best she could come up with, having heard it from someone else probably.

Without any facts.

Maddy, he is an odd sort of train crash isn't he? He was practically on his own at the start of the election campaign. 21 points behind and ridiculed by right wing media. He has made huge gains for Labour by walking around the country and talking to people and, more importantly, by listening to people. Labour took Canterbury, then Kensington, train crashes don't tend to do that sort of stuff.

That's a good video daphne. I think a lot people are beginning to understand that austerity is largely a way for the Conservatives to make sweeping idealistic changes to the very fabric of our society.

Hi Lumpy .As for my elderly mum.She feels her experience of living through several Labour governments is that that overspend and then leave a hell of a mess to clear up.That's why she objects to Corbyns manifesto and all the sudden proposals of free tuition fees etc.She loves a good political debate.With with any of us.And is very proud all her grandchildren are passionate about politics and I've had many a spirited discussion ,agreeing to disagree .
But she be upset if she saw our neices FB post addressed to her,by name,and criticising her for not backing Corbyn as a former NHS employee and basically outing ber voting intention.I didn't show her as she doesn't use FB ,but just pointed out to neice air your views face to face where she has recourse to reply,and she agreed it was ill judged.My point was all oppinions are valid,wether through the enthusiasm and optimism of youth,or the experience and sadly,you could say cynicism of age.

Over the last 80 years the tories have borrowed more than labour. Labour did not overspend, they were running a deficit comparable to any other uk party when the global financial crisis hit. They spent money dealing with that crisis, plans which were approved by the tories who would have done the same thing.

Labour spend money on public services, they build schools and hospitals, services improve. Some of the things they do are ridiculous but generally public services are safer in their hands.

I was educated in the eighties under the tories and it was appalling. My daughter is being educated under the tories and I work in education. What is happening in our schools, right now is disgusting. Not just the soul crushing cuts but the changes to the curricuum and other ridiculous idealistic changes that Gove and co brought in.

Our hospitals are on their knees, they are in crisis. People are dying under the tories, this is literally true. Either committing suicide or being declared fit for work and dying 3 days into the new job.

Dying is way worse than people not getting buried.

Earlgrey, your mums experience matters but she is wrong if she thinks that the tories are better with the economy or run the country in a more ordered way, they don't. They cause utter chaos that takes decades to repair.

The tories benefit a few people, they always have but they cause a lot of damage. Wealth is transferred upwards under the tories and trust me there isn't any trickle down.

Whitewave. We had a referendum on changing electoral system about 5 yrs ago. The country voted for the status quo.

Wouldn't a Corbyn led govt be a minority govt although probably more to your taste. And with less seats.

Just for record, I voted to remain and find DUP highly objectionable too.

Earlgrey she is right to be upset about her niece. I am appalled about the way some people use social media to harass and bully. We all have our vote and our experiences, it's good to debate but it's dreadful to bully and belittle.

I have true blue tory voting parents. I despair that they vote the way they do but I love them very much. We mostly avoid politics but will debate from time to time.

leeds There is a small part of me that is positively gleeful that the tories remain in power. I want them to own Brexit, they made the puddle and I want them to clean it up!

We had a referendum on changing electoral system about 5 yrs ago. The country voted for the status quo.

It was actually seven years ago leeds22, and the Conservatives only agree to the referendum if it was as complicated as possible with a version of AV not PR. In this fast moving world it is not unreasonable to ask that it is looked at again.

The only party that benefits from the current system are the Tories. That will make every Tory and right-wing fellow traveller declare they do not want to look again but we really should expect them to win on a system where every vote counts not a perverse system that goes back to the days when only men, and only those with property could vote.