Brexit negotiations starting tomoorow

As negotiations start, France and Germany have made it clear that Brexit is not a done deal and UK can withdraw, reverting to status quo.
Petition available on avaaz website.

mcem sorry to be a dumbo but I don't understand how, on the avaaz website, to sign the petition, could you provide a link please?

Both Conservative and Labour published manifestos agreed that Britain wants out of EU including the Single Market and Customs Union. Over 80% of population voted for one of these parties Stalmer (don't know how to spell his name) made this clear on TV today. I am sure we are all aware that EU will not allow us to control immigration and remain in Customs Union or leave Single Market and do trade with any other country unless through the EU.

"If you're dreading work tomorrow, bear in mind David Davis will be spending the morning being told to piss off in six different languages."
190 replies . 5,252 retweets 9,922 likes

A tweet I saw yesterday.

secure.avaaz.org/campaign/en/no_deal_no_brexit_loc/?ckHcnjb

newnanny, it's spin.

Labour must be more than aware that a very large number of people voted for them to get the tories out and they had no other credible choice. What were Remainers supposed to do? Spoil their ballot papers and let the tories in?

There was no choice for Remainers - no party saying they would stop Brexit and remain.

The figure of 80%!keeps being mentioned but if May fought the election with a view to strengthening her majority to deal with Brexit, that does not seem a stunning endorsement of Brexit. This poll on whether it was right to vote to leave the EU shows both sides neck and neck whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/ . Most polls at the moment are being conducted on the terms of the deal, should there be a referendum on the terms etc. rather than support or not for Brexit as in the original referendum so this was the only one I could find.

newnanny - how arrogant to assume you, or any politician, knows why people voted how they did. I most certainly did not vote in the GE for staying in and I totally reject any assumption that I did.

Upsetting the Good Friday Agreement, and rekindling divisions in Ireland seems to me one of the most dangerous possible consequences of Brexit, but I can't remember this being discussed at all in the run up to the referendum.

For many voters the recent General Election was not about Brexit so I do not believe any meaningful correlation can be drawn between the Election result and current views on Brexit.
In any case, the Labour manifesto states we will leave the EU ... and there are parts of the Labour manifesto (which the unions will be pressing for) which would be illegal under EU rules.

It wasn't necessarily about leaving the EU, but more about how we should leave the EU.
May called the election to ask for her hand to be strengthened. It wasn't, so she should now rethink the Brexit strategy.

Which parts, SharonJ?

Lim Dems clearly stated they would keep GB in Custom Union and Single Market. They were only party to do so and only got a few seats so clearly not a popular choice. GracesGranMK2 all parties clearly set out in manifesto what their view to Brexit was. Most people would surely have taken that into account before making their choice. If not what is point of any party setting out their views in manifesto. Polls with just a few thousand will not be representative or accurate of whole population so more or less useless. I suppose the only poll that really mattered was in June last year and that was to leave the EU. Last JUne I looked very carefully at both sides of argument and what both sides stated it would entail as I'm sure did most others who voted. Brexiteers made it clear to vote out would be to leave Single Market and Customs Union.

labourlist.org/2017/06/may-should-put-brexit-talks-on-hold-and-bring-labour-on-board-for-advice/

The government this morning still had no idea what Brexit meant, and had not sent their opening position papers to the EU.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-opening-position-papers-government-yet-to-send-submit-latest-news-a7792531.html

Good post newnanny??

But, newnanny, you can't say that those who voted for Labour and Tory were voting for Brexit. I voted for one of them (guess which!) and I was certainly not voting for Brexit.
The manifestos were much more than Brexit, no matter what May wanted it to be about.

The referendum only asked about leaving the EU - NOT the customs union or the Single market - they are not synonymous and we did not join them all together.

Many people voted tactically in the GE to give the Tory's as few seats as possible - in some seats it was pointless to vote anything but Labour to oust the Tory or not let them steal the seat by dividing the vote - not because of a view of Brexit. It might have been interesting if Corbyn had come out in favour of remaining - the great majority of MPs still think that is the best route and it is quite possible that the population will too when they see just what being out of the EU does to the UK.
The EU will be poorer too as the UK often brought sense to decisions - the continentals liked that about the UK too.

durhamjen, Nationalisation is part of the Labour manifesto. It is against EU rules. The Labour manifesto was in favour of a hard Brexit and that clearly would have been in the minds of many who voted Labour during this election.

The Labour party manifesto was not in favour of a hard Brexit. I voted for it. I think I would have noticed.

theconversation.com/fact-check-do-new-eu-rules-make-it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180?sa=pg2&sq=nationalisation+and+EU+rules&sr=1

Nationalisation is not against EU rules, either.
Where did you get your information from?

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/renationalise-railways-what-no-one-will-tell-you-we-cant-while-were-eu

We are talking about perception here. I can tell you that many Labour voters were happy with the Labour manifesto because it favoured a hard Brexit.

theconversation.com/left-wingers-for-brexit-need-to-wake-up-to-what-theyre-about-to-do-61259?sa=pg2&sq=nationalisation+and+EU+rules&sr=6

"If a left-wing British government tried to renationalise the railways, or any other utilities, the EU would be the least of its worries. The main obstacles would come from within the UK, most notably from the private sector and, indeed, the electorate. British voters are – whether the left likes it or not – far more economically conservative than most of continental Europe.

Any British left wingers thinking of voting to leave the EU over these issues should perhaps instead consider leaving Britain. "

From the article.

And... from my Labour Leave update by email on 9th June 2017:

"The Labour manifesto, which caused such an upset last night, could not be fully implemented if we either stayed in the EU or opted for a 'soft Brexit'. EU rules would forbid the full renationalisation of either rail or utilities; they must be 'markets'.

EU rules on state aid would render any sort of active industrial policy impossible. Free movement of labour would hinder any efforts to either resolve the housing crisis or increase low end wages for working people."

That's good, Sharon, you use an article written by Kate Hoey to persuade me that you are right?

Somehow, I don't think she is unbiased. In fact that's an article she used to scare people into voting for Brexit. In 2015.

Again, Sharon, that's Labourleave.
Biased!