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London Fire -2

(898 Posts)
Rigby46 Thu 22-Jun-17 00:37:58

Chief Executive has resigned - SJ told him to go he says. Good. Now let's see the leader do the honourable thing.

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 15:56:12

You will just have to find out by reading links or watching the news, like the rest of us do.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 15:59:59

The news doesn't give info of the volenteers they are interviewing, just a name and volenteer

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 16:39:07

www.indy100.com/article/everyone-should-watch-this-video-from-the-grenfell-tower-meeting-7823116

VolUnteers on this.

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 16:45:15

www.kcmind.org.uk/news-article.asp?ID=136

Lots of information about volunteers on this.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 16:56:40

Still correcting posters spelling errors Jen? Does it make you feel good, give you a warm glow ?

Rigby46 Wed 05-Jul-17 16:59:12

Oh just leave it off ab.

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 17:00:11

Just thought you might appreciate it, Annie.
Should have known better. Strange because I thought you volunteered for lots of things.

Ana Wed 05-Jul-17 17:02:29

Why would being mistaken about the spelling stop anyone from volunteering, durhamjen?

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 17:08:09

Why would misreading someone's name need correcting, Ana?

I imagine if someone volunteers they see the word volunteer quite a lot. It's on the noticeboards everywhere where there are volunteers that I know of.

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 17:11:53

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/05/grenfell-12-month-immigration-amnesty-for-survivors-announced

This is really going to make them all come forward, isn't it?

Eloethan Wed 05-Jul-17 17:42:27

Until all the historical background leading up to the Grenfell fire has been examined, we don't actually know what is true and what is not. To dismiss concerns regarding a number of issues as being "conspiracy theories" is, I think, blinkered. If there has been some wrongdoing, there is a fair chance that those involved, and others connected to them, would prefer that it did not come to light.

Hillsborough is a case in question. Police officers conspired with one another (at the behest of senior officers) to write matching reports which placed the blame for the tragedy on the victims, rather than on a number of other factors but particularly the actions of senior police officers.

Had it not been for the video recording of a New York man, the original - and some might say more convenient - account that Ian Tomlinson had "fallen over" during a London demonstration because he was drunk, would have been accepted as the truth. In fact, he was shown to have been hit from behind by a policeman and pushed over. The New York businessman who gave the film to the Guardian said:

"The primary reason for me coming forward is that it was clear the family were not ­getting any answers."

If this man didn't have the video film to prove his account, perhaps he would have been labelled as a "conspiracist".

For years, some people employed in the building trade claimed they were the subject of a "blacklist" because they had campaigned for fair and safe conditions at work. The major construction businesses that were cited vehemently denied those allegations, but they were eventually proved to be true.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 18:32:53

I cannot see how there can be lies , the police were not in control , if there was a warning the cladding was a fire risk then Kensington and the other councils should face charges , any builder would confirm the dangers if the cladding carried a warning , well some builders

petra Wed 05-Jul-17 18:55:47

this is really going to make them all come forward, isn't it?
I know if I was in this country illegally I would be grabbing the opportunity.

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 19:01:17

What, so you can stay for a year and then be sent back where you came from?

There is no amnesty for anyone here illegally in this statement.

'The immigration minister, Brandon Lewis, told MPs the move was in recognition of the fact that some foreign nationals directly affected by the fire did not wish to engage with the authorities because of their concerns about their unresolved immigration status or because their permission to stay in Britain was about to expire.'

Unresolved immigration status means they had applied but had no response yet.

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 19:05:00

None of them have paperwork to prove their status.
Giving them 5 years as with any other person arriving here would be much better.

petra Wed 05-Jul-17 19:14:37

none of them have papers to prove their status
If they have applied their details will be with the home office. No proof needed.
If they haven't applied to the home office, why not?

durhamjen Wed 05-Jul-17 19:23:18

Because they have only just arrived?
Because they are wives or mothers and didn't need them?
Bacause they are children born here and didn't need them?

It says they will not conduct checks; are you saying the home office should do so?

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 19:45:25

Jen, I don't care that I am a grotty at spelling, enjoy a giggle when I make an error , I am not comfortable with ill manner people getting a cheap shot .

Never had to read adverts asking for volenteers, I have phone calls asking me if I can help.

petra Wed 05-Jul-17 19:58:50

Doent ryse too it anny, I now yu hav that disleksia thing grin

Eloethan Wed 05-Jul-17 20:02:10

I was just giving examples anniebach. I mentioned the police cases not because I thought the police have any responsibility for or involvement in the fire (although their role will be pivotal from now on I would think), but to demonstrate that cover-ups have happened. Nobody knows yet exactly what happened and so to make allegations about any individual, public authority or commercial concern would be jumping the gun. What I was saying is it is perhaps unwise to suggest that all "conspiracy theories" are unquestionably without foundation.

I do understand why the residents of Grenfell and other affected properties are mistrustful. Since experiencing this terrible fire and losing perhaps family and friends , and their homes, they have discovered some very unapalatable things about the refurbishment - that there had been warnings about the materials used and the type of construction, and concerns raised about many other safety issues, all of which were ignored. If it were you, would you not feel deeply suspicious of all the parties involved?

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 20:14:40

I realised you used the police corruption just as an example Eleothan , I think a big difference in the thinking between those poor people involved and armchair detectives , I wouldn't expect them to think clearly , I think it better if we who were not in anyway involved should be able to think clearly . Such as accusations of withholding the number of dead, doesn't take a pea brain to work out this may never be possible .

trisher Wed 05-Jul-17 22:13:13

"those poor people" involved have voices Annie and they are using them, unfortunately people like you dismiss them as unrepresentative, or as only volunteers. No one is being an 'armchair detective' simply asking that these people be listened to and their requests recognised. History has shown that only when full attention is paid to the voices of people affected and involved can a satisfactory outcome be achieved. Do you think the Hillsborough people were able to think clearly? And if they were why aren't the Grenfell survivors? There could be estimates of the dead based on the numbers thought to be the tenants in each flat, but this hasn't happened, much easier to slowly release the increasing toll and hope the righteous anger is dissipated.

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 22:46:30

So those interviewed with volenteer across the screen are not telling the truth, why do they not say they are victims and why do they speak of the victims as if they were not one themselves .

Anniebach Wed 05-Jul-17 22:50:39

I know .petra, it was that dislekia fink which cosed me to type organism but meant orgasmic , I think grin

WilmaKnickersfit Wed 05-Jul-17 23:25:24

I've just read the George Monbiot article and honestly it took my breath away. You couldn't make this stuff up, it's like a Jeffrey Archer novel.

To think that as the building was burning, the Red Tape Iniative was meeting to discuss removing the very regulations that cover materials like the cladding on the building.

I think the article also puts paid to the idea that this government isn't going to cherry pick which EU laws converted into UK law are retained. How many other government backed bodies have been established “to grasp the opportunities” that Brexit offers?