London Fire -2

Yes, Wilma, horrific, isn't it.
NHS is definitely in the same state, being offered to the US insurance companies, so their friends can make money out of it.

Have you seen that the company that put the alarms in is being investigated for Camden alarms not working properly?

I agree with petra. If some of the victims haven't already contacted the Home Office it's reasonable to question why. I also think that checks should be made.

There's a lot of understandable anger at the time it's going to take to ascertain just how many lost their lives and doubtful if the true number will ever be known. There's no way that can happen if some of the victims and survivors shouldn't have been there to begin with because they were in the country illegally.

Waiting to hear if an application to be is going to be accepted isn't the same as never having made an application.

Should have put 'an application to be here'

What are you on about, smileless?
Just because they lived in Grenfell doesn't mean they should be known to the home office, does it?
Does the home office know all about you?

If I had run out of a burning building in my night clothes, had people in hospital still recovering from smoke effects and burns, was living in a hotel room desperately trying to collect together enough things to live a reasonable life and trying to reassure my children that they can sleep safely at night, the very last thing I would consider would be contacting the Home office or any other authority. Getting through the day would be hard enough.

Before the fire

publicmatters.org.uk/2017/06/24/the-americanisation-of-the-nhs-happening-right-here-right-now/

NHS, Wilma.

But then you have sympathy and understanding for the situation these folks are in trisher. On the other hand you might have been in the tower block and now be dead - which would make it difficult to contact anyone, even people who are obsessed with immigration

durhamjen
Both Smileless and myself were referring to the issue of people not going to the authorities because of their illigle status.
But I'm sure you knew that.

Difficult if they are dead, petra.

I don't give a shit if they are illegal, British, Syrian, refugees, or aliens. They have gone through a traumatic experience, they deserve compassion and understanding. Not their papers and status checking.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/07/after-grenfell-social-tenants-across-london-who-feel-they-are-being-ignored

This is how social housing tenants feel across London.

I would have thought it was obvious what I was on about dj. If they are immigrants who've been given permission to stay or have applied for permission then they'd be known to the Home Office, as they should be.

I've no idea if the Home Office knows all about me or not, I'm not an immigrant so probably not. Why isn't it possible to have a reasonable discussion on these political threads without some using ridiculous, emotive and inflammatory rhetoric?

"Run(ing) out of a burning building" etc. etc. If you were one of the poor victims of this tragedy and were here legally or applying to stay, you'd have already contacted the Home Office trisher so wouldn't need to do so.

I do "give a shit" if people are here illegally but that does not mean I have no compassion and/or understanding for the terrible situation the survivors and bereaved find themselves in.

People voicing their concerns regarding illegal immigrants doesn't mean they're obsessed with immigration GG and no, if they've sadly died they wont be contacting anyone; so obvious it didn't require stating. That said, not knowing for certain whether they were in the building of indeed even in the country may mean that they have relatives abroad who'll never know what became of them.

I'm sure they know what we're referring too petra, just arguing for arguments sake because a different opinion isn't welcome.

I agree with Petra and Smileless .

www.mysociety.org/2017/06/19/grenfell-tower-how-mysociety-can-help/

Lots of freedom of information requests on here.
You might be able to find out how many illegal immigrants have burnt to death if you want to, or how many are hiding from the home office.
Good luck with that.

It would be good if you showed as much concern about those who are here legally.

Anniebach

If they are what you describe as "illegals" Smileless2012 and have survived they will have probably already contacted their relatives and reassured them. Certainly there will be others who will not have heard from relatives for a long time, but if those relatives are somewhere in a camp, in hiding, have died in the fire, or died in other circumstances they may never know. Asking about illegals in this instance is a red herring. Unless of course you are concerned with all the displaced people who are somewhere unsafe and in danger,but somehow I doubt that.

Really dj is that the best you can do? I don't why you presume you have the moral high ground and are the only one upset by the deaths at Grenfell especially when you appear to be unwilling or unable to have a reasonable debate.

What a nasty post "You might be able to find out how many illegal immigrants have burnt to death if you want to(o), or how many are hiding from the home office".

Ironically if God forbid there was another terrorist attack in this country, under this Gov. and the perpetrator(s) were found to be here illegally, I bet you'd be one of the first on GN to attack TM et al for a lack of security.

I wouldn't be. You'd beat me to it hands down.
How many terrorist attacks have there been where the perpetrators were foreign?
Most of them are British. It's nothing to do with illegal immigrants.
Stop using that as an excuse to do nothing about the tenants of Grenfell.

No it isn't a red herring trisher, it's one of the reasons why the true number of fatalities may never be known.

Well you don't me trisher so you can doubt all you like. Fortunately I don't need to insult people or question their humanity either directly or indirectly to express my opinion.

Will really love to know how add friends facebook profile samanta romeo mail [email protected]

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I agree with Petra and Smileless

I can point you to a small forum of pensioners where 99% would agree with Petra and Smileless. They are following the right-wing working-class thinking they always do.

That doesn't mean they are right.

Previous post should have said "you don't know me".

When have I ever made excuses for doing nothing about the Grenfel tenants dj? My point which you seem to be deliberately finding difficult to understand is that IF a terrorist attack were to be carried out by an illegal immigrant there'd be an outcry regarding border control and state security.

You either agree that all immigrants seeking to stay here follow the necessary procedures or you don't. I don't have an issue with people being here legally but I do have an issue with those here illegally which has absolutely nothing to do with the sorrow and compassion I have for all of the Grenfell victims.

Doesn't mean they are wrong either GG. People have opinions, you may not agree with them but that doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right because they're not the same as yours.

By the way, I'm not a pensioner.