Corbyn and the Monarchy and Armed Forces.

I did not say 'another Blair' yyg I said a moderate Labour Leader and not a hard left or if you prefer a Socialist one.Don't forget, that although Corbyn did better than expected, he did not win overall either.Yes, it's true that the electorate is fed up with austerity measures but they were not won over by Corbyn even with the people pleasing manifesto, so my feeling or opinion is that with a moderate leader,( who wouldn't be nationalising everything within sight etc) they would have won.Other opinions are also available.

Do you mean social democratic rose?

Socialist leaders don't exist in this Kingdom.

I didn't say a Socialist dictator ww and no doubt Corbyn wouldn't be able to get a lot of things through Parliament if he had won the GE.The electorate didn't want to take any chances though it seems.

And neither did I say a dictator. rose

social democratic policies. The clue is in the title

It's a given ww

....and it's not popular generally with people in the UK, which is why I think a moderate Leader would do better.

And now you are suggesting that social democracy is extreme, we'll tell that to most of Europe

We are not most of Europe ww and people here tend not to like anything too extreme.As you already know.

Oh!!! So now Europe is extreme. rose do get a grip

A lot of the electorate know all about Jeremy Corbyn and his life on the back benches, and are suspicious of a man who has dubious friends ,Hamas and the IRA amongst others, and has spent his life rebelling against his own party.
They don't really want anybody with either far left or far right views.
There is so much denial on this forum that he and McDonnell are far left that it's breathtaking.

I really think ww that you need to get a grip, and realise why Corbyn did not win this last election.

Seriously.....why do you think that 160 or more Labour MP's want rid of him?

WW

" pogs i am totally unclear where this insistance thst the Labour leadership is hard left is getting us?"

" But this hard left insistence is beginning to sound peculiar".
-----

Actually WW it is ' your ' frequently asked question, insistence, to posters on various threads asking posters who use the term Hard Left what they mean or ' your ' persistent defence of there being no Hard Left Labour politicians that has caused me to post on the matter.

What is ' peculiar ' disingenuous, is you ask for posters to tell you what they think the Hard Left means then you get upset when you get a response (which you don't like) and try to belittle the posters involved :-

You asked theses questions for example -

Wed 28-Jun-17 09:53:40

"I am also entirely unclear, where "hard left politics" has come from."

Wed 28-Jun-17 14:41:09

"So can you give me actual evidence for them being hard left? I am quite interested to understand which of their social democratic policies you consider beyond the pale.

the fact that you continually repeat that they are hard left is done so without a shred of evidence provided? "

Stop asking the question or accept you will receive a response. Simple.

Oh so no evidence then? Thought not because there isnt any.

And hard left becomes hot air and disappears into the ether

Corbyn earns £137.000.00 per year, went to a top private school, lived in a huge house and had a privileged life's style. How can he spout on about workers rights. Look at the salary of Mcdonneld and Abbot,( whose only songoes to a top private school) they are more conservative in their life style than most Tories

LL
1)What he earns is the salary for a leader of the opposition. What's your complaint about that?
2) went to a top privare school - utter and complete rubbish - a bit too much DM reading perhaps? The grammar school he went to became voluntary aided ( ie state funded) in 1950, in the 1980s it became direct grant( state funded) and in late 1990s became voluntary aided agin( state funded). In what Humpty Dumpty world is this a top private school? It was and is selective and has excellent results ( as it should as it's selective).
3) Lived in a huge house - it was a large house (7 bedrooms) which was on the market a couple of years ago for about £800k

On what planet do the decisions your parents make about your education or the house they can afford dictate whether or not your care about workers rights? Do you know absolutely zilch about the history of social reform in this country and who were some of the driving forces? Some even had titles and huge estates or great wealth from manufacturing. I really don't understand what you are trying to say. You can't be left wing if you have had/ have some 'privilege' - whatever that means anyway. Can you not be right wing then if you've had/ have you experience of deprivation.BTW what's a conservative life style?

WW

" And hard left becomes hot air and disappears into the ether".

It will always be in the ether to those who deny it's existence I suppose.

So what does "hard left" mean to you POGS?

I agree with ww that the Labour Manifesto really was not "hard left". I'm comparing it with policies in countries such as Cuba, Venezuela, Soviet-era Russia or China, which I do consider to be "hard left".

My personal view (and I'm not even a Labour supporter never mind a Corbynite) is the Labour Manifesto didn't go far enough on taxes and welfare.

European Social Democracy is, by no stretch of the imagination, "hard left". Merkel is a conservative, but even she would find many of the policies in the Labour Manifesto quite acceptable.

PS. If Corbyn went to a top private school, so did I. Does that mean I'm doomed to hold right wing views for my lifetime, because I went to a particular school?

George Orwell went to Eton and Clem Attlee went to Haileybury. Shouldn't they have held socialist views?

daphnedil

"So what does "hard left" mean to you POGS?"

Why am I reminded of Loyd Grossman and Through the Keyhole.

" Watch closely because, remember, the clues are there, as we go through... the keyhole."

There will always be some who perceive a very much social democratic programme - which is what Labour are offering - as hard left. They are the people who thought the neoliberalism which was brought in by Thatcher supported by neo-labour governments and increased by the Osbourne vanity project was what we needed. If you are a neoliberal you will see any government with a social programme as 'hard left'.

Rather than this being a correct reflection of the Labour Party offer it exposes the neoliberals amongst us.

Have you seen through JC's keyhole, POGS? Creepy!

devongirl

Well, I wouldn't call it a 'top private school' although I am sure it was and is a very good school (apologies to anyone else who went there).

and, like daphnedill, if he did then so did I.

I was just going to say that Jalima..... JC didn't go to a top private school,Although of course maybe dd did .

It's clear that very few on here will accept that Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott ( sounds like a firm of solicitors) do hold far left views.It's funny, in a not very amusing way.