Corbyn and the Monarchy and Armed Forces.

JC would not be my first choice as Labour leader. I'm not so cynical as to believe the 'scent' of victory is leading MPs to lower their criticism. Could it be, that like many others, they no,longer feel so anxious that he can only campaign and never lead.
I still have concerns, particularly about McDonnell and Abbot but the LP seems in bettter shape, more optimistic and alive than it did pre election campaign. That has to be a good thing for this country. Every government needs an effective opposition and its beginning to look as though we have that in the LP if not the LibDems sadly.

You are entitled to your opinion Annie but please remember it is your opinion and not necessarily a fact because you state it.

That might be true rosesarered inasmuch as he was dismissed, ridiculed and not accepted by the PLP until he showed that he could carry the wider public with him. Now many are having to look at him with new eyes. He certainly isn't a New Labour man and those who pinned their colours securely to that particular flag are having to think again.

One think I can say for sure is that this man, Corbyn, would most definitely NOT have allowed himself and the country to be led, hand in hand bybthe likes of Bush, into the Iraqi war. Think of the consequences to the Middle East since then, the rise of Isis and the knock-on terrorist attacks in this country,

I'm positive that Jeremy Corbyn would NOT have taken us to war.

The Labour Party is not like the Conservatives, it is really democratic. Policy is set at Conference, by the membership. As leader, Jeremy Corbyn's views are well known, at least by those in the party, if not the right-wing media. But if conference comes up with a different policy, that is what the party policy will be. The leader will then have to either support it, or resign. And if you truly believe in democracy, you support it.

You're right about that NannyMcPhu. Imagine how different things would be if we'd had a Labour leader like Wilson, who refused to allow the UK to be dragged into the Vietnam war.

So is Yggdrasil, right to point out how Labour policies are agreed on. That's why the Manifesto was a good one. jC is clear about his own views on Trident but will lead on what is Labour policy. I believe it's right to debate Trident because the costs and benefits need to be set against the need for effective armed service personnel. We are an island yet our navy is diminishing.

It takes a strong personality to stick to your beliefs but at the same time recognise democracy when they see it.

I am also entirely unclear, where "hard left politics" has come from.

Corbyns policy if you take the trouble to study it takes much of its principles from the European social democratic tradition.
Principles that guide Merkel. Macron the Scandinavian countries etc. Hard left someone is allowing the hard right to fool them.

Corbyn is of the same politics as the militants who were expelled from the party in the eighties , the politics which made the Labour Party unelectable for 14 years . He led a campaign to get the expelled militants back in the party

That's better Annie facts, are better than mere opinion.

However, I'm not sure that Labour is unelectable any more and I also think the Labour Party reflects in its manifesto what is a rather a more left view, rather than the extremes of Blairism or Trotskyism.

If you look at the sort of economics and policies being developed by the Labour Party annie I think you will find that they have far more in common with social democratic policies than the old militant policies.

I disagree NannyMcPhU, giving unions more power ?

Does anyone think that the Unions would not have more power ( a lot more) under a Corbyn McDonnell government?
Yes, I think they are far left , and so do a good number of Labour MP's and electorate.

If nobody had thought that, Corbyn would be PM right now.

Nope wrong rose. The unions would have no more or less power than they do at present unless parliament changed the law.

Labour policy is decided at conference. It is the PLPs job to develop it. Labour policy will be decided by ALL.

You are letting the Fail get through to you again.

Is it your unsubstantiated opinion that they are far left or is it based on evidence?

The Fail? Oh....is that your amusing name for the DM?
Don't take any papers, and haven't for years, but when we did it was The Times....does that have an amusing name as well?
Corbyn and McDonnell.....not far left? ROFL

So can you give me actual evidence for them being hard left? I am quite interested to understand which of their social democratic policies you consider beyond the pale.

Or

Is the fact that you continually repeat that they are hard left is done so without a shred of evidence provided?
I suggest you look at Labour policies being developed to assist you in your analysis.

I'd be interested in the answer to this too

Annie I can tell that you are not a Labour supporter from your comments about giving unions more power. You might think you are, but deep down, where it matters, if you disapprove of the working man or woman having the right to withdraw their labour in protest at poor pay and conditions then you 'aint no labour supporter sister' to paraphrase a young Muslim man.

Agree rosesarered that the Fail is a silly name for the Daily Mail. I'd suggest the Daily Heil is more appropriate.

I am not a natural Labour voter but I am happy to vote for what I consider to be very much a Social Democratic manifesto that the LP put forward in the last election.

However, I am aware that fairy-tales are there to teach us to fear (or the original ones were) and I can see that the fairy-tales about the 'hard-left' and it's possible attack on democracy worries my less logical mind.

Because of this is would be prepared to give my vote to put a Labour government, under it's current leader, in power for one government and then review where my vote would go. I feel that, even if this LP turned out more to the left than I would want that cannot do more harm in one government than it could do good in balancing and reversing the neo-liberalism of Thatcher and all that followed her, which has ended up with the extreme right in control of the recent Conservative government and which control brought about the referendum which, in my opinion, was a cowardly act.

More than that the destruction of a equitable society began and has continued with all governments since Thatcher - as it always will under neo-liberalism - and altering that course would be most important to me as many of the things I believe in would follow that.

this is- this, I

I can see that the fairy-tales about the 'hard-left' and it's possible attack on democracy worries my less logical mind.

Nice post GG2

But why worry about the 'hard left' attacking democracy when the hard right and the current leader of the tories are hell bent on destroying it?

I agree Maizie, but I must acknowledge my illogical thoughts as we all have them

If you define the hard left in the correct way, rather than accepting the rights version, there are so few of them that it merits not a single thought, except perhaps as a oddity factor.

Do you consider John McDonnell is Far Left/Hard Left of politics when he says 'I am a Marxist'?.

Many Labour MP's themselves have used the term Hard Left when talking of Momentum and Corbyn/McDonnell, we have all heard and read their words.

For example recently Labour MP Margaret Hodge when asked about John Mc Donnells comment about Grenfell she responded "Not in my name , that belongs to the Hard Left of the party."

It doesn't require saying in the Daily Mail , the horses mouth says it. Actually the term 'Hard Left ' has been used in articles in the Guardian etc. so I think that point is as usual a waste of time.

As for the specific question re the Unions perhaps you are perfectly correct in thinking all the Unions are left/centre/right of politics, not hard left. Who'd a thought it.

A further question. Why is being called Hard Left deemed as being derogatory or am I mistaken and if so why do so many call themselves as coming from the Hard Left of politics so proudly? I thought it was a sort of badge of honour to display being Hard Left in your credentials, if not why do so many do it?