Aimed at the Wrong People?

We are really veering off the subject now......but let me say this, The Salvation Army has always been there before anyone else where there is need.They care about homeless people and the lonely and anybody else who needs help including gay people.The rules they have within their own hierarchy are exactly that, their own rules.
Times have changed, and young Mothers haven't been told ( for a long long time) that they have sinned and their babies put up for adoption.We can't judge what used to be the case, when it ceases to be.
We are only talking about the Salvation Army because both Iam64 and myself then said how good we thought they were.
dj thinks being a vegan is more important than the work they do ( it does surprise me somewhat as dj is always talking about the poor and dispossessed in society, but there you are.)
naturally I shall go on supporting the work they do.

Do vegans not care about the poor and dispossessed?
Are the two mutually exclusive?
Vegans think about the world as a whole, and stopping the rise of global warming.
As well as thinking about the poor and dispossessed, in this country as well as the rest of the world.

Well, bully for them!

I'm going to go completely off-piste here - dj you mentioned vegan cheese earlier, do you have a reccomendateion (I'm vegetarian would like to go the full monty but addicted to cheese )

Are you sure you really want to commit yourself, devongirl? It seems the conditions for joining are pretty stringent...

Violife, devongirl, particularly their Prosociano which you can use instead of Parmesan, or their mozarella.
I also like soft Sheese to use as pasta sauce.

Anyone can join, Ana, we're not fussy. All you have to do, really, is stop eating meat, fish and dairy. Really easy.
The rest will follow naturally when you start thinking about what you are doing.

It really doesn't matter does it - I mean whatever way you choose to make a difference. Some want to help the homeless, others save tigers. Some march in protest, others are more hands and stand rattling collection boxes. Some won't eat meat (or any animal product) others ferry the elderly to hospital appointments.

So long as you are actively helping someone or something then you have my respect.

Exactly, Anya, and doing one does not preclude doing others.

Just an update on this thread.
For anyone who said that this thread was unpleasant - perhaps you find that this is acceptable.

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/hundreds-of-european-workers-fired-two-days-into-glastonbury-clean-up-a7818571.html

I don't, it has made me feel sick and angry.

"However it appears that this year’s good weather, as well as the use of charity workers and on-site litter crews during the festival, meant that there was less rubbish after the event had finished. Up to 600 workers are understood to have now been laid off."

What makes you feel sick and angry, the fact that your OP wasn't right?
Less rubbish than normal is surely a good thing, isn't it?

By the way, what is your opinion of zero hours contracts?
That's what I disagree with, but lots of people on here have said that they are a good thing.

I agree, Jalima, it is disgraceful if it is as reported.

I'm just wondering how much control over the Festival Michael Eavis has now. He is quite elderly. It's such a huge enterprise that I'd be surprised if he knew every detail. (though I'm sure he knows this one now...)

I've always had the impression that he's a 'good guy'. I wonder if he was fully aware of the situation?

Yes, me too MaizieD

The thing is, it has got so huge now and obviously the organisers have to delegate.

djen - yes, of course, less rubbish than normal is good.
What makes you feel sick and angry, the fact that your OP wasn't right?
how you spin it, I suppose. My OP is even more relevant in the light of what has just happened. I am surprised that you cannot see that as I thought you were a champion of the 'under-dog', not the privileged.

Zero hours contracts - they could suit some people (students perhaps) but I don't agree with them because no-one can plan their lives properly.

Your OP complained about the amount of rubbish left. You have no idea whether it is left by the rich and privileged or not. You complained about it being left for the underdogs to be cleared up.
Now you are saying it's not fair that there isn't enough to be picked up!
Sorry, but can't you see the irony in that?
It's not about spin - unless that's what you were doing in your OP.

If you can't see how ridiculous your post is, then you are missing entirely the point of all this.

Irony - yes!!

Yes, people leave behind their disgusting mess for others to clear up. The people who can afford to go to Glastonbury. Never mind that a few have their tickets bought for them - that's a red herring because they obviously have relatives who can afford the price of a ticket.
Never mind that it is good value and you can see lots of bands.

Some people could never afford to go - ever.

The people clearing up may be volunteers doing it in exchange for a ticket (presumably that is at less than the minimum wage in normal years)
People have travelled in good faith from other countries because they were told there was work for at least two weeks - there isn't so much work this year so they are sent on their way without the goodwill of a meal or transport to the nearest town.

You claim to champion the under-privileged in society as does Jeremy Corbyn. He addressed the crowds who were, in the main, fairly privileged. He did not address the workers coming on zero hours contracts to find there was no work to be sent away hungry and in despair.

Did you look at my link?!

Now do you see what I mean?
You mention irony.
That is irony.

Correction: SOME of the people clearing up may be volunteers doing it in exchange for a ticket.

Others are coming to work and to be paid.

BUT THEY WERE GIVEN ZERO HOURS CONTRACTS.

It seems perverse, to me, to accept zero hours contracts, then complain when they are carried through with.

I got that from your link, by the way, the zero hours contracts, as well as the quote about the good weather.

The problem is zero hours contracts being allowed, not that they were kept to.
Why would Corbyn address those coming in to clean up? He did not employ them. He wants to get rid of zero hours contracts, like I do.

Yes, I agree that they should not have been sent away without a meal when they were expecting one. However, that is not the main problem.
It's zero hours contracts per se, as far as I can see.

jalima
I'm sure both of us see the dilemma that durhamjen is in: the underdog was going to be employed by a labour supporting organisation.
If the organisation had been supporting the Tories I'm sure the response would have been far more scathing.

The response would have been just the same.

It's a shame that you cannot see that the problem is zero hours contracts.

I wonder if the people posting about how awful this is will also protest about the single mother who pays for childcare, pays her fare to work and then is sent home early because she is on a zero hours contract and there aren't enough customers that day. It is exactly the same situation and it is zero hours contracts that are the cause. You can't blame the organisers for using the system.

you cant blame the organisers for using the system
Spoken by a true socialist, well done

Anyone know who the contract came from? It doesn't say in the article.

Wiki seems to think most contracts are for volunteers
With the exception of technical and security staff, the festival is mainly run by volunteers. Some 2000 stewards are organised by the aid charity Oxfam. In return for their work at the festival Oxfam receive a donation, which in 2005 was £200,000.[131] Medical facilities are provided by Festival Medical Services who have done so since 1979. The bars are organised by the Workers Beer Company, sponsored by Carlsberg (previously Budweiser), who recruit teams of volunteer staff from small charities and campaign groups. In return for their help, typically around 18 hours over the festival, volunteers are paid in free entry, transport and food, while their charities receive the wages the volunteers earn over the event.

Catering, and some retail services, are provided by various small companies, typically mobile catering vans, with over 400 food stalls on site in 2010.[130] The camping retail chain Millets, and independent shops, set up makeshift outlets at the festival. Additionally charities and organisations run promotional or educational stalls, such as the Hare Krishna tent which provide free vegetarian food. Network Recycling manage refuse on the site, and in 2004 recycled 300 tonnes and composted 110 tonnes of waste from the site.[132]

Unfortunately Network recycling was dissolved in 2013- so it isn't them!

How ridiculous.

On the one hand, there are complaints that virtually all the people attending Glastonbury are "privileged". (It is hardly in the same league as people who pay large amounts of money for a couple of hours at a concert (Barbra Streisand - tickets £100-£450+, Glyndebourne (£120-£230), etc, etc.

Then there is the complaint that people leave a lot of mess, which it turns out they didn't, so now there is a complaint that most of the people employed to clean up the mess (presumably through an agency) were not required. That is the reality of zero hours contracts and, as trisher said, in the past when people have complained about this, they have been told that it is perfectly reasonable business practice and that a lot of people like the flexibility of zero hours contracts (which many don't).

I don't recall anyone complaining about Glastonbury in past years but it seems that just because Corbyn spoke there this year, it is now essential that some people voice whatever contrived outage they can muster in order to discredit the festival and the people who attend it.

So true eloethan

False umbrage!!