Cliff Edge anyone?

They called John Major the 'grey' man - I feel Corbyn is doing a good job of taking his place. He cannot seem to fully support either side incase he needs to change his mind.

If there was an out and out Remain leader I think things would soon be different.

I have the same problem ( of many) with Corbyn Tegan. he did not come out on the remain side, and perhaps this was because many of the traditional Labour areas were also areas with a high Brexit vote, but Labour should have been there, spelling it out to car workers in Sunderland for example, just what they were ( and were not) voting for. Alan Johnson, an honourable man, did his best, but Corbyn didn't help enough to my mind. I am devastated at what is happening, appalled by the May administration, but also frightened of what JC and his motley crew really do stand for. There must be many like me, and we are not being represented.

That just about sums it up GillT57
except to say that I am appalled by them all. The majority vote was for Remain here despite a Brexiteer MP - who got elected again.
And the Lib Dem vote went down here too.

#lostinthewilderness

That's a bit rubbish, really.
There was an out and out remain party, the Libdems.
Just because you were too scared to vote for them in case someone else got in doesn't mean it wasn't there.
Why does Corbyn get all the flak for Brexit winning?
Alan Johnson did his best? - he was the leader, not Corbyn, so of course he didn't do his best.
Why is May not getting any flak for Brexit winning?

That's why the country desperately needs a form of PR then we can all vote for our preferred without worrying about letting the other one in and knowing that our vote will count.

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/petitions-for-proportional-representation/

Also try this

www.change.org/.../make-this-the-last-general-election-to-use-our-broken-voti...

Just seen this latest piece from AC Grayling

Article from : www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/a-c-grayling-has-6-reasons-to-prove-why-brexit-will-be-stopped-1-5098052

He always writes such sense.

I hold the Conservatives responsible for the brexit disaster; a party that will do anything to hold on to power and appease it's rich backers. But, for the past year my confusion has been that the people who have represented me have been Anna Soubry, Nicola Sturgeon, Ken Clarke and Nick Clegg.I wish that brexit didn't override every other political issue [for me, anyway] because there are far greater things to be fighting for at the moment. I'm always having ding dong battles on facebook with people on the Red Labour page who seem to be anti EU and openly mock people like Stephen Kinnock and Owen Smith. There are still divisions in the Labour party that need to be resolved before we get [as I very much hope we do] the sort of government that does, genuinely care about this country and it's peoples. To fight for that a lot of us need to feel that we're singing off the same songsheet.

This is good as well, Welshwife. Note it was written in February.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexit-is-about-the-rich-rees-moggs-of-britain-not-anyone-else-1-4896702

Actually DJ I did do my best, I joined the Libdems and made a donation because I did think they were the only ones telling the truth, but sadly they got pushed aside as being inconsequential. I wasn't giving Corbyn all the flak, I just wished he had been more positive, more out there, he was wishy washy. I do blame May and all the rest of them, David Cameron especially, for calling this blessed referendum in the first place, they didn't take enough care to get the message across and were completely outflanked by the outrageous claims and downright lies of the dubiously financed Brexit camp. I don't have faith in the Labour party to pull us out of this mire, and it pains me to say so, they have been given this bloody mess of Brexit, cuts to education, health, policing etc., and they are not making much of it. We need someone to grab the wheel and stop this bus from plunging off the cliff, and I would vote for whoever it is because I think this is so important it transcends party politics.

I had the same problems Tegan, and developed a sneaking respect for Anna Soubray, especially when she sneered at Boris Johnson. She appears to be someone who is unafraid of the consequences of deviating from the party line, but sadly it may proof a bad move for her own career.

New European article very good DJ, straight to the point too.

We are sailing in a ship of clumsy fools. A C Grayling. Very accurate description. I would recommend everyone reads the Grayling link posted by DJ, especially those clinging on to the 'taking back control' mantra. You have been had. And by some very nasty people.

I believe that Rees Mogg still retains his job as fund manager doesn't he? He will almost certainly gain from Brexit

There will be no Brexit. I am certain of that, more than I have been since the referendum.

Hi so hope you are right WW - but how do you think that would go down with the Brexiteers who are so angry?

Well the economy will dissipate a lot of that anger, that and the gradual realisation exactly what the UK will look like if Brexit happens, with the end of things like the NHS and cheap food.
The danger is that no one will have the guts to say "enough!"
But there is already a change in the mood music, no doubt about it. More and more people are standing up and challenging Brexit.
May asked for a mandate over Brexit - wellbshe didnt get it.

Of course all the dodgy lot like Banks, Farage, Cambridge Analitica, and even Russia will muster their force so I think that we need a cross party support n relation to fighting Brexit. There are as we know more MPs in favour of remain. It simply needs organisation and will, just like Banks and cohorts.

The polls will give added impulse just as I think they are beginning to with an 8 point lead..
Once they reach double figures in favour of remain - and they will, then we can truly demand that they must respect the will of the people.

I am sure there will still be a lot of anger from those who passionately wanted Brexit - and probably more from those who have been most vociferous and have actually realised the con played on them.

The split that has opened up in the country will take some time to heal and I wonder how many of the skilled people we need will actually trust the UK to come - whether they are NHS workers one those with skills in the food gathering and packing industry.

I felt more optimistic after reading that Grayling article than l have since the referendum.
Yes we need someone to stand up and shout that we (they) for it wrong.
The Tory rebels plus labour rebels backed by SNP - not sure where PC would stand and led by Vince!

got it wrong not for !

I keep seeing stuff along Graylings line and more and more of it.

Naturally the BBC etc isn't reflecting it yet as of course it will toe the government line, and they always underwhelm in their ability to challenge Brexit ministers.

So the general population are not aware yet, I don't think, how the mood Is swinging away certainly from a hard Brexit. As a soft Brexit isn't possible then there can only be one resolution.

The Brexiters need to read the same sort of articles or surveys or they will never believe the change in opinion - unless the Daily Fail etc join in - but they would need to put it on the front page for maximum coverage.

Just because you were too scared to vote for them in case someone else got in
Was that addressed to me or GillT57?

Or was that a generic you

I said before the GE that I didn't believe in tactical voting which was being promoted most vociferously.

I believe that Rees Mogg still retains his job as fund manager doesn't he? He will almost certainly gain from Brexit
Yes, I heard that he does which is why he said that he takes no Parliamentary expenses to which he is entitled but he understands why other MPs have to do this.
Apparently gets up in the early hours to manage his fund.

Bearing in mind that our pensions etc all rely on these fund managers I don't think we should be too scathing about them. I for one could not have managed my own pension fund.

Do I sense some dissension in the ranks Re support for Corbyn?