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Momentum are getting stronger

(411 Posts)
Anniebach Fri 07-Jul-17 10:28:05

Luciana Berger who is chair of the Jewish Labour Movement was re-elected in Liverpool with a majority of nearly 33,000

Momentum activists took nine of ten positions in the LP, one new official has said Berger is now answerable to us!

I thought an MP was answerable to her constituency

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 12:39:41

I was talking only about my own post when I mentioned (the lack of) antagonism, T.

The Haidt TED talk is excellent. The photo shows its central tenet. It is very well argued. Very well indeed.

Eloethan Fri 14-Jul-17 12:56:23

The Telegraph article written by Jacob Rees-Mogg I think is worth looking at in relation to the power of the elite to present a view of Britain that reflects its own life experience and values:

"The great British nanny is supposedly going the way of the dodo. For, now the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge have decided to appoint a Spanish child minder for our future king, what can lesser mortals do?"
[This assumes that non-royals are in fact "lesser mortals", which I think is a value-loaded judgment that not everybody will agree with.]

"Alas, for the British nanny is one of our nation’s finest traditions, iconic like a London taxi or a red bus ...... important to the country’s wellbeing." [Who decides that the British nanny is "iconic"? I suspect the vast majority of people in Britain have no thoughts either way about nannies and do not see them as integral to or representative of British life].

Rees-Mogg continues to wax lyrical about the importance of nannies and goes on to say:

".... a proper nanny views her life’s choice as a vocation, not a mere job" [He even goes on to say that being a "proper" nanny is akin to adopting a child].

"..... nannies always used to be referred to by the surname of their employer. When I was little [these nannikes] were all part of the families for which they worked and with which they stayed, essentially, until retirement."
[To me, this demonstrates how far removed the lives of people like Rees-Mogg are from those of most people and how seemingly oblivious they are to this fact]

"In this may lie part of the problem. Proper British nannies put the child ahead of everything. They do not like to see children used as accessories, carried around in slings for the convenience of the parents’ social life."
[If, as Rees-Mogg seems to demonstrate, nannies in all major respects care for and nurture their charges to such a degree that they are as, if not more, important than their parents in teaching and caring for the children, surely these parents are indeed treating them as "accessories"?]

"But if the parents only show confidence in the nanny there are no limits to what she will do..... Veronica [his nanny] was always the chief finder of lost items for my father and never refused to do something for him because he was not her charge. Indeed, when my mother was a Westminster councillor and often out in the evenings, she would happily make him supper – as she still does for me."
[So basically then, a general dogsbody who should feel honoured that "confidence" had been shown in her ability to undertake any manner of unrelated tasks at all times of the day and night]

And then he refers to Mary Poppins! What a load of romanticised and deluded nonsense.

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 12:59:12

I'm pleased you enjoyed it Baggs

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 13:05:12

Being a "vocation" it will of course be paid less and have longer hours. Makes you wonder what century we are living in.

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:09:47

Can you provide a link to the article maybe?

I never thought I'd say this, but I do agree with him that the British Nanny is iconic. It's changed from Mary Poppins to SuperNanny but I think you could argue a case for it.

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:16:27

trisher My eldest has recently returned to work after maternity leave and can't afford a nanny! It's pretty well paid work.

www.nannytax.co.uk/wages-survey/2016-wages-survey-results

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:20:56

Well, for a start you'd need a house large enough to accommodate another adult so I doubt if many people could afford that for starters....

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:22:46

And isn't our idea of Mary Poppins based on the Disney film not on the books in which she was a much darker, shadowy sort of character [a bit like Rees Mogg himself, perhaps...]?

Eloethan Fri 14-Jul-17 13:27:21

How could you argue a case for it Primrose?

MaizieD Fri 14-Jul-17 13:40:45

One could easily argue a case for the British Nanny being iconic in certain circles but she is completely irrelevant to the greater part of the population.

I would echo trisher's comments on the Rees Mogg article and also add that having a British Nanny could also be a horrible experience for her charges; cold hearted, overly authoritarian, bullying and downright nasty; she pops up in this guise in memoirs from time to to time.

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 13:52:05

Has anyone been watching the nanny in the latest series of Ripper Street, by the way shock?

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 13:55:48

Primrose65 Gross wage for nanny quoted as £542 per week. If she/he works a 12hour day, 5 days a week, with probably some night work for a baby, that works out as less than £9 an hour- not well paid then.

Anniebach Fri 14-Jul-17 13:59:57

So he writes what the nanny does for the family, no mention of what the family does for the nanny , perhaps little, perhaps much

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 14:11:29

trisher Those figures are based on a 50 hour week though. You can't change part of the calculation then complain about that result! I'm just sharing factual information. It's not a badly paid job. Things change for the better sometimes, and I'm pleased that they do.

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 14:47:03

It's gross pay Primrose65 so less than £10 in real terms after deductions. I don't consider that well paid for the responsibility for someone's children My DIL pays her cleaner £10 an hour.

Ana Fri 14-Jul-17 14:52:10

The figure of £542 quoted is for a live-in nanny, so presumably boaard and lodging included - which makes the pay even better.

trisher Fri 14-Jul-17 15:01:40

I wonder who calculates the 50 hour week, having done some childminding/nannying in the past I can tell you that the parents are unlikely to stick to 50 hours even if the nanny is supposed to work that many. They will be held up in important meetings, miss trains, have emergencies and generally manage to turn up late or rush off early knowing that nanny won't abandon her charges. It's amazing how the time mounts up with 10 mins here and 15 there.

Primrose65 Fri 14-Jul-17 15:21:42

Your DIL is lucky to have a cleaner, but that £10 an hour is a gross figure too and not a national average. The national average hourly pay for a cleaner is £7.27 an hour.

So comparing average nanny to average cleaner is £10.84 to £7.27. Everyone agrees with you that nannies have more responsibility than cleaners and they pay for that.

www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=Cleaner/Hourly_Rate

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 16:52:17

From what I've read of the quoted article by JRM, it sounds as if he loves his nanny and she him. He can't be blamed for the way he was brought up any more than someone brought up in severe poverty can be.

He seems like a decent man even if one doesn't like his politics and his eccentricity. Think I'll join the JRM4PM society wink wink

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 17:34:15

Even though he votes in favour of restricting pay rises for public sector workers? How can that make him a good man#notinmybook sad...

Crafting Fri 14-Jul-17 17:35:37

Totally agree baggs. I read the article too and I thought it showed how much he cared for his nanny. Presumably as she is now nanny to his children she must be happy to still be with the family or she would have left by now. Yes he comes from money and is wealthy but he doesn't hide what he is. No one could mistake him for anything other than what he is. I find him amusing and self deprecating.

Eloethan Fri 14-Jul-17 18:14:36

Looking at Jacob Rees-Mogg's voting record there is a noticeable pattern:

Proposals that primarily relate to people on average to low incomes -

Consistently voted for reducing housing benefit;
Consistently voted against paying higher disability benefits;
Almost always voted to increase VAT;
Consistently voted to raise student tuition fees;
Consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and FE;
Consistently voted for reducing local government funding;
Almost always voted against the slowing of rises in rail fares;
Consistently voted against restriction of fees charged to tenants by letting agencies;
Almost always voted to restrict scope of Legal Aid.

Proposals that primarily relate to the better off and more powerful sections of society -

Consistently voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over 150,000;
Almost always voted against bankers' bonus tax;
Consistently voted for reducing Capital Gains Tax;
Almost always voted for reducing Corporation Tax;
Almost always voted against restricing provision of services to private patients by the NHS;
Consistently voted against regulation of gambling;
Consistently voted against restriction of fees charged to tenants by letting agencies;

Additionally, he:

Generally voted against measures to prevent climate change;
Consistently voted for selling England's state-owned forests;
Almost always voted against the right to remain for EU nationals already living in the UK;
Consistently votes against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords.

You may feel this reflects "decency" - I don't.

Tegan2 Fri 14-Jul-17 18:18:25

Likes to keep the lower echelons of society in their place, doesn't he....

GracesGranMK2 Fri 14-Jul-17 18:26:51

And then those who think they are just a bit better than the 'lower echelons' vote for people like Mog. Please, someone, tell me why you would do that and support the highly capitalised while attacking those who have little or none?

He shows no sign of helping or even understanding people not in his privileged position but it's OK to let him run a country apparently. It really doesn't make you a clever and good person to inherit wealth and privilege and grow your increased wealth and privilege from that.

Baggs Fri 14-Jul-17 18:31:03

wink wink = JOKE, ffs!