What should be done about Public Sector pay?

www.waronwant.org/StandWithMigrantWorkers

durhamjen so you're OK with recruiting from areas where there are already nursing shortages?

Brilliant news here for workers.

www.unison.org.uk/news/2017/07/massive-win-union-massive-win-workers/

Grayling another one to go in the reshuffle.

labourlist.org/2017/07/grayling-needs-to-go-after-tribunal-fees-verdict-says-tssa-boss/

Given that few EU nurses are now wishing to work here, it seems that, with regard to Europe, it is not much of an issue any more.

What will happen instead is more nurses will be recruited from non-EU countries - many of them developing countries which will be much harder hit by the loss of the nurses they have gone to the expense of training. In 2015 an article in the Telegraph included this:

"Dr Carter said: “NHS trust after trust is recruiting heavily. Countries like Portugal, Spain and the Republic of Ireland have been exhausted. There is an ethical and a moral issue here. The UK, despite our financial issues, is one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

“ We cut our training programmes to save money but we are going off to India, Africa and the Philippines to recruit nurses they have trained and can ill afford to lose. I don’t feel good about going to a developing country and nicking their nurses.”

"Twenty-nine per cent of new nurses were recruited from abroad in the past 12 months compared with 11 per cent five years previously."

So, it appears that from 2010 onwards the number of nurses from overseas recruited into the NHS rocketed. I don't think it's any coincidence that this happened following the forming of the Conservative/Lib Dem coalition.

It is laudable to be concerned about tempting trained nurses from countries that have invested in their training and which desperately need them. However, this has been largely the result of Conservative policies. It started with bringing in the major re-organisation of the NHS that Cameron had categorically denied he would do. Now, recruitment and retention of British nurses is at an all-time low becasuse their pay has been cut and staffing has been reduced -and now they are expected to pay for their training. It doesn't take a genius to work out why fewer and fewer people in this country want to train to be nurses. I find it difficult to believe that the Conservatives were unaware of the consequences of their actions.

Heading for privatisation, Eloethan, of course they knew what they were doing.

I agree with your post Eloethan but would just like to say that the furore over the recruitment of medical staff from third world countries which I mentioned was in 2005.

I can't remember when this was but I also remember a 'brain drain' of our young doctors who had recently qualified here all going off to Commonwealth countries because, after training, there were no posts for them here.

Perhaps this has always happened, perhaps well qualified young people have always had a sense of adventure, seeking opportunities worldwide.

Whatever the reasons we need to train more nurses and we should not be charging them for the privilege.

I've just been sent a link to this.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-additional-support-for-social-care-providers

It looks like care providers who have been underpaying their workers will not be penalised for doing so.
That can't be right. It's immoral. Some carers are owed thousands of pounds.

Philip Hammond was a director a care homes company, as was his wife.
Couldn't have anything to do with that, could it?

I think that's because Mencap were going to be totally broke durhamjen because they were in dispute with UNISON
www.unison.org.uk/news/press-release/2017/06/mencap-to-pay-care-workers-minimum-wage-for-sleep-ins/

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/CitizensAdvice/welfare%20publications/Universal%20Credit%20recommendations_DIGITAL.pdf

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jul/27/labour-demands-inquiry-into-privatisation-of-nhs-owned-recruiter

Why is Hunt allowed to get away with privatising anything he wants to?
Anyone would think the Tory party had a big majority in the commons.

Perhaps a different question would be why do doctors use other agencies when they know that NHS Professionals does not charge fees? As they get the same rates through any agency, what makes doctors take that money out of the NHS?

I can't see anywhere in there that says doctors are taking money out of the NHS.
Perhaps you can enlighten me.

"Justin Madders, the shadow health minister, has written to Sir Amyas Morse, the comptroller and auditor general who heads up Whitehall’s spending watchdog, asking him to intervene before a sale is finalised, possibly as soon as next month.

“On the government’s own estimates NHSP saves the taxpayer around £70m a year by organising last-minute or replacement staffing for NHS trusts in England, and ensuring hospitals don’t have to rely on expensive private agencies”, Madders writes.

He wants the NAO to “examine the business case that has been produced [by the DH] to ascertain a better understanding of what additionality the private sector can bring to what on the face of it is already a successful organisation.”

NHSP supplies staff cheaper than those obtained through private agencies which Simon Stevens, the chief executive of NHS England, has castigated for charging “rip-off” rates.

It is thought ministers hope to realise about £50m for a 75% stake in the firm, which supplies staff to more than 100 hospitals around the UK. Staffline, one of the employment agencies hospitals use to find stand-in staff, is thought to be among those bidding to buy NHSP."

NHSP saves about £70 million a year.
Selling it off will realise £50 million in a one off sale.
Is this Tory financial wizardry that everyone talks about?
It doesn't make sense to me.
A better question is who owns the companies that are bidding.
But the best question of all is
Why is Hunt allowed to sell it off?

weownit.org.uk/act-now/dont-sell-nhs-professionals

75 MPs so far agree that the sale should be stopped.
Why is Hunt in a hurry to get it sold before there is a debate on the subject?

I'm sure doctors are aware of the benefit of NHS Professionals. So why don't they all use it? There would be no competitors to sell it to if they did.
That's the question - why do doctors use other agencies?

Noam Chomsky knows how privatisation works.

Can you explain, primrose, why the government should sell off a company that is saving £70 million a year for only £50 million?

What durhamjen? Ask Jeremy Hunt about the pros and cons of the deal. I just wonder why doctors don't try and keep the money that it costs the NHS to employ them on these contract jobs within the NHS. I simply don't understand it. They get the same money either way. Why do they make the NHS pay an outside agency? They are handing the money over today and have been for years.

Okay, so you can't explain. You don't think it makes sense either.

That's not what I said. You're imagining what I think and then challenging me to prove or disprove your assumptions.

But you can't answer it, can you?
That was the question I asked in the first place. You tried to deflect from the government onto the doctors.

Do you want the government to sell it?

What I want is irrelevant, as I'm not in a position to make a decision about it.
I am interested as to why the behaviours of NHS staff have potentially contributed to the situation. If they only used the NHS contract agency, there would be no competition. It's not deflection, it's relevant.

If you don't want the government to sell NHS Professionals, sign this.

It isn't irrelevant.

weownit.org.uk/act-now/dont-sell-nhs-professionals

You just don't want to answer.