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(111 Posts)
Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 11:02:09

What is happening in this country , little on the news yet people are being shot

durhamjen Sat 12-Aug-17 14:04:58

Have I said so?
What I admire is any South American country that fights against being taken over by the US.
The reason Venezuela is in the state it is in is because Saudi Arabia swamped the world with oil, reducing the oil prices. Chavez and Maduro had to fight against that, as most of their exports, 95%, I read somewhere, were oil.
That happened in 2015, I think.

We were in the same sort of situation with oil exports, but we had lots of other things to export, unlike Venezuela.

MaizieD Sat 12-Aug-17 14:33:24

Strange comment Morgana. Annie started this thread so she could have ago at Corbyn. UK politics has been in it from the start. And I think the similarity between the Left wing populism of Venezuela and the Right wing populism of the UK is striking. Both are manipulating the populace and damaging the country. It's just that the UK is not yet in such dire straits as Venezuela.(and hopefully never will be)

Anniebach Sat 12-Aug-17 15:00:33

So wrong,,I started this thread because I watched the news coverage on the brutality which was taking place in Venezuela, unlike some, Corbyn is not the central part of my life

Primrose65 Sat 12-Aug-17 15:05:12

So Venezuela is in the state it's in because of Saudi Arabia?

durhamjen Sat 12-Aug-17 15:18:12

"It seems, after some hesitation and discussions in the early part of 2014, Saudi Arabia launched this oil price war in tandem with the US. America supported the policy as it wanted to undermine the influence of oil-dependent Russia, something it apparently considered more important than supporting its own fracking sector, while access to cheap imported oil is good news for US consumers and industry in general. Whether or not there was a clearly planned and agreed strategy, there seems to be an unmistakable convergence of interests between the Saudi and US positions.

This strategy of keeping the price of oil down has not necessarily destroyed either the Russian or Iranian economies however. Instead, the hardest hit oil-producing nations are in South America and Africa, where petro-states such as Libya, Angola, and Nigeria are suffering.

But the worst affected country of all is Venezuela, the most disastrously oil-dependent state in the world. Oil accounts for 96% of exports and more than 40% of government revenues.

It is still unclear whether the Saudi-US oil price strategy will ever achieve its main goal of crushing Russian and Iranian power and influence. But one thing is clear: the world oil market will continue to be extremely volatile, and smaller, less powerful nations will continue to be caught up in the wider battle."

From an article in The Conversation four days ago.

Anniebach Sat 12-Aug-17 15:32:48

Wonder who gets the blame for the poverty in Russia

nigglynellie Sat 12-Aug-17 16:16:19

Trump, Annie, annie who else?!!

nigglynellie Sat 12-Aug-17 16:18:45

Sorry, I didn't mean to write your name twice, I meant to correct the capitol 'a'!

Anniebach Sat 12-Aug-17 16:49:04

Your right niggly, has to be the fault of America and their 'promise the world president Trump'

MaizieD Sat 12-Aug-17 18:23:32

So wrong,,I started this thread because I watched the news coverage on the brutality which was taking place in Venezuela, unlike some, Corbyn is not the central part of my life

Really, Annie? hmm

So why did you post this when someone asked the thread was started?

Anniebach Fri 28-Jul-17 20:41:01
It was started because a man who wants to be the next P.M. Of this country and his shadow Home Secretary and shadow chancellor hold Venezuela as an example of all that is good , worrying

POGS Sat 12-Aug-17 19:12:44

There was a link posted yesterday at 18.07 to ' Human Rights Watch ' regarding Theresa May and accompanied by the question:-

"Dubious human rights record?"

Here is another link to Human Rights Watch :-


Under the leadership of President Hugo Chávez and now President Nicolás Maduro, the accumulation of power in the executive branch and erosion of human rights guarantees have enabled the government to intimidate, persecute, and even criminally prosecute its critics.

Severe shortages of medicines, medical supplies, and food have intensified since 2014, and weak government responses have undermined Venezuelans’ rights to health and food. Protesters have been arbitrarily detained and subject to abuse by security forces.

Police and military raids in low-income and immigrant communities have led to widespread allegations of abuse.

Other persistent concerns include poor prison conditions, impunity for human rights violations, and continuous harassment by government officials of human rights defenders and independent media outlets.

The Venezuelan government has targeted critics of its ineffective efforts to alleviate severe shortages of essential medicines and food while the crisis persists.."

It is worth reading the ' atrocities ' carried out by the regime in Venezuala under the headings :-

Prosecution of Political Opponents
Crackdown on Protest Activity
Operation Peoples’ Liberation
Humanitarian Crisis
Judicial Independence
Freedom of Expression
Human Rights Defenders
Political Discrimination
Prison Conditions

All the fault of Theresa May, Donald Trump, Saudi Arabia, USA according to some it appears.

I repeat

It will always be the case some who have feted the likes of Castro/Chavez and Moduro, those who have praised them and their Socialist Governments will continue to do so. They will apportion blame for all the woes of Venezuela onto other individuals, nations and organizations but at the end of the day Moduro is the one to take the blame for HIS actions.

petra Sat 12-Aug-17 19:35:31

Have you ever visited these countries you speak so highly of. I appreciate that Venezuela isn't ( or ever was) your tourist hotspot but Cuba and Russia are perfectly normal places to visit, even more so for one who admires their way of life so much.
I think that would be no, am I right?

Anniebach Sat 12-Aug-17 19:44:17

Quite simply explained Masie, you missed ! my first post which was a question two weeks ago , I knew nothing of Venezuela or why those poor people were being shot in the streets, I have learned much since that question , if I had known of Corbyns support for the dictator I would have said so in my first post and there would have been no need to ask the question would there ?

MaizieD Sat 12-Aug-17 20:19:31

Humpty Dumpty words, Annie.

How can you wriggle out of "It was started because..."?

Do you know what, POGS? I thought for a while that your post was leading to the fact that Theresa May was tending to try just the same things as Maduro...shock

POGS Sat 12-Aug-17 20:52:47

From a previous post.:-

" The state still subsidizes food far below normal prices to appease the poor".

Ye gods they are 'starving' , food is scarce for the poor! I cannot believe this has been known for so long and still Moduro is seen as doing a fantastic job by some.

" At the same time, Maduro's hostility to foreign business has created a corporate exodus. Pepsi (PEP), General Motors (GM)and United (UAL) are just some of the companies that have cut back or left entirely. Unemployment in Venezuela this year could reach 25%, according to the International Monetary Fund."

Naturally! Chavez and Moduro have ' Nationalised ' swathes of businesses by fair means or foul , ( foul being a generous word possibly) , for years under their ' Socialist Regime ' costing Venezuela billions. Some of those businesses are now struggling but the Socialist dream must be defended at all costs .

"To keep up, Maduro has raised the minimum wage three times this year. That has provided a little short-term relief to the poor, but experts say it creates long-term pain in the form of a worthless currency."

The clue is it's only short term relief , 'it creates long-term pain in the form of worthless currency"

"Maduro blames his opponents for Venezuela's economic woes and says U.S. sanctions on Venezuelan leaders are proof the United States is waging an "economic war."

Of course he does ! Like his predecessor , Chavez , he refuses to accept he is responsible for the current demise of Venezuala and his Socialist Government .

"Regardless of where the blame lies, humanitarian misery has followed the economic plunge."

'Regardless of where the blame lies' !! How can that term be used when the people are starving, the government uses violent methods to suppress opposition , the people are beaten arrested and imprisoned and the economic plunge could be the resort of so many aspects of how the Socialist Regime operates .

Yes the drop in oil prices is a 'factor' as is the fact Chavez/ Moduro have 'nationalised' so many businesses including oil production it has come back to bite the Socialist dream big time. That's why Venezuela is in so much trouble , it is reliant on oil production big time.

It is interesting to view the problems in Venezuela from the Socialist /Nationalisation principal and how Scotlands Independence 'could possibly' , I repeat 'could possibly' have mirrored some of the issues re oil reliance .

By the way Saudi Arabia is an OPEC member but so is Venezuela .

petra Sat 12-Aug-17 21:13:14

You have mentioned before that you admire and believe the reporting on channel 4 news.
They have done at least 2 reports on the situation in Venezuela, so your saying that that was all lies?

Anniebach Sat 12-Aug-17 22:13:10

The far left smell the winning post, forget all the failed communist countries , ignore the truth and dream the nightmare

POGS Sun 13-Aug-17 10:20:36

It certainly is worrying to see how the Socialist Regime and Moduro have manipulated their way to Venezuela almost becoming a Dictatorship

It is no surprise the Socialist far left have been virtually silent as it has dined out on the likes of Chavez/Moduro for years , the Socialist idea of what we in the UK should look up to.

Socialist Moduro has just created a new legislative Superbody, the 'Constitutional Assembly ' which is expected to rewrite the constitution and obviously give more power to Madoros ruling Socialist Party. It has been condemned worldwide as undermining democratic freedom. It is nothing short of Venezuela becoming a dictatorship under Nicolas Moduro and no doubt if it remains in place eventually by his son also called Nicolas Moduro Guerra.

Nepotism has always been favoured in dictatorships !

On Tuesday, Maduro’s newly-formed “Constitutional Assembly” issued a decree declaring itself superior to all other government institutions, particularly the opposition-held National Assembly.

Democracy is of course a fear to those who oppose the thought we all have a right to vote, have a right to voice that is in opposition to theirs and will do what ever is necessary to stop democracy being upheld through fair deed or foul.

POGS Sun 13-Aug-17 10:22:18

I wouldn't mind betting Chavez would even be worried by Moduro.

Anniebach Sun 13-Aug-17 10:26:21

Corbyn has deleted his praise and ambitions for the same politics in this country from his internet blurb,deleting doesn't mean he has changed his views.

POGS Sun 13-Aug-17 11:17:08

I think the term is 'Rewriting ones history'.

An odd thing for ' any ' politician to do who wants to be thought of as an Honest /Conviction Politician .

They trade on a persona / stick to their fundamental values for years and seemingly are prepared to trade it all in for power.

That's politics for you.

Anniebach Sun 13-Aug-17 11:24:14

That's hypocricy for you,

durhamjen Sun 13-Aug-17 13:47:07

durhamjen Sun 13-Aug-17 13:49:10

Anniebach Sun 13-Aug-17 14:07:46

swakbox?no thank you , I like truth