Our country post Brexit

How - Have just - became Houston I cannot fathom!

That's weird, Welshwife. I was just looking at the flood photos of Houston and wondered what it had to do with this thread.

I've just read it, too.
Good. Clear water between government and Labour.
A real choice for people now.

Good to see Keir Starmer being allowed to use his skills, too.

Thank for the link Welshwife. I had seen the headline on the news but no detail. Very interesting.

I might even go out and buy the Observer tomorrow, to make sure I have all the facts.

Is Labour perhaps starting a U-turn on Btexit. Also in the observer is an article about a Durham Former Mining Village forgotten by Westminster. It does tend to confirm the belief that many Brexit votes were votes against the Establishment by those who have been sidelined for so long. The Conservatives are still sidelining the North in transport and other areas favouring the South.

It just gets more confusing, Brexit definitely Wrexit! Sadly much of the wrecking has already happened and may never be reversible whatever the outcome. We are no longer a tolerant society, perhaps we never were.

Meanwhile the £ continues to slide. Let's hope all those Brexit voters going off to Spain or Florida or wherever don't moan about how expensive everything has become....

The Labour position will undoubtedly find that the majority of MPs in parliament is one that they can support, including the majority if Tories.

The loons are going to find support slipping from them unless their "constructive ambiguity" finds some sense and position that clearly shows that there will be no cliff edge.

Davis's silly grin and attitude is now no more than an irritant as we realise the deadly seriousness of what we have voted for and the potential outcome.

The backlash has begun - and not beforetime!! there is finally light at the end of a very dark tunnel and our grandchildrens future may be more secure as a result.

Thanks for the information about the other article in the Observer Cindersdad. I think you are correct in tying the two together. Oh that the Tories had that insight.

I would also agree about tolerance - it was only ever superficial for many, sadly.

Mathew Paris has just said that though he wouldn't vote for Labour under Corbyn (no surprise there) he has for the first time contemplated that he could vote for a Party brave enough to say what Labour has said

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/26/can-labours-change-of-course-over-brexit-change-britains-fate

Let's hope all those Brexit voters going off to Spain or Florida or wherever don't moan about how expensive everything has become....

Well, the Observer also has an article about that this morning. Travellers returning from Europe a trifle shocked at how expensive it has become because of the devaluation of the pound.

Mind you, the Brexiteer they quote is sure that it's just a temporary blip... No doubt because Brexit is going to make the pound Great again...

For other travellers, including those who had voted in favour of Brexit, the slide of the pound was regarded as a temporary price worth paying. They included Stewart Harris, who was travelling to Turkey and had been closely monitoring how the pound was faring against the Turkish lira. “I felt that it was going to happen, but I’m confident that things will even out,” he said.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/26/british-tourists-tell-of-misery-of-pound-at-eight-year-low

The Tories must be wobbling. This is such good news.

I know that for us Remainers it isn't quite what we want but the momentum is definitely away from a hard Brexit and econonmic catastrophe.

The thing to do now is to contact our Labour MPs and Tory Remainers and push harder.

May has a hard job in Tokyo this week, if she is to convince the Japanese PM of her position post Brexit.

The so-called positioning papers issued so far are anything but, and the Japanese are adamant that they cannot allow their businesses sitting in the UK tonduffer as a result of Brexit. Perhaps they need to talk to Labour

And, from the Independent:

'I don't recognise my country anymore': British citizens leaving UK because of Brexit amid exodus of Europeans

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-british-citizens-leaving-migration-impact-irish-passports-latest-eu-referendum-fears-racism-a7914606.html

Theo Dunnet, a 71-year-old Oxford resident, says he would have left Britain already if he was able to.

“On the morning after the result last year my first thought was ‘I want to go somewhere else’,” he said.

“I didn’t want to live in this country anymore. Since then I’ve seen a rise in racism, xenophobia, homophobia and religious intolerance.”

Mr Dunnet said he feels the country where he was born in the year after the Second World War ended was regressing “towards the poorer past”.

“If I could speak German or another foreign language and were many years younger I’d have already left by now,” he added.

I think a number of us older people feel the same..

We know now that Brexit was built on a total lie.

When Parliament gets back next month the EU withdrawal bill returns for its second reading.
Labour now it has made its position very clear and with the bills position on the ECJ - it cannot possibly support it.
One can only hope that those Tory MPs waiting for a spine transplant have finally succeeded in getting one and puts the country before party in their votes.

The country will never forgive them if they don't

I read that article on the Durham village, Cindersdad. Appalling. 39% living in poverty.
Housing association offering houses to the council for £1 each and the council declined the offer!
He talks about the numbered streets. It's like that in many pit villages in the north east. Not very imaginative, pit owners, in either names or layout.
They sometimes called them Avenue instead of Street, but it meant the same and they looked the same.

The shift in Labour policy regarding Brexit is interesting. Research from Chatham House (Matthew Goodwin) shows that an extended transition period is the least popular option for Brexit.
Can't post a link as it's in his book "Brexit - Why Britain Voted to Leave the European Union".

How many people were in his research and from where did he choose them? That is the crucial question and the groups I read would all suggest the opposite is true.

By the authors of the book Primrose cites:

blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/04/why-britain-voted-to-leave-and-what-boris-johnson-had-to-do-with-it/

Answers some of your questions, Welshwife.

2 things I would note

1) Data is possibly already out of date as the book was published in May 2017 (though I haven't looked to see if Chatham House have published any since

2)Their book seems to support the proposition that the Leave vote was influenced by 'feelings' rather than fact

In conclusion, the story of why Britain voted for Brexit is straightforward. Propagated by an unlikely pair of messengers, Leave’s ‘Take Back Control’ message harnessed the emotive power of immigration, amplifying public concerns over identity and a feeling of being left behind that had been baked in long before the vote was called. These immigration fears, hitherto confined to the politically incorrect margins, not abstract concerns about a ‘democratic deficit’ or rescuing UK sovereignty from Brussels bureaucrats, do much to explain why Britain voted for Brexit.

Interesting that they discount concerns about democracy and sovereignty.

The worries based on immigration are now shown to have been based on lies.

David Owen and Matthew Paris have both indicated that they will vote Labour after the weekends announcement.

There will be millions more who feel the same.

Looking at the Guardian today, there is an article suggesting that the loony left are pushing hard for JRM to succeed Maybot.

What glorious news for Labour!! Nothing could be better than for the Tories to choose someone clearly so removed from those whose voted Brexit because they feel so left behind and misunderstood.

I think the French just blinked.
France and other nations signalled they were willing to tear up the Brussels- imposed timetable on negotiations and get trade talks under way in October.
In 'life of Brian' parlance: spliters.