Moggmentum is getting stronger

Where did anyone see f-ing and blinding?
It's not in the transcript of the speech.
What was omitted was the Tory youth shouting Labour scum all the time. That didn't add to the discussion at all.

twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/914827695195918336

www.facebook.com/ThePeoplesAssembly/videos/1582790958455455/

The lad was on Daily Politics today.

At the same time the Rees-Mogg speech was on, McDonnell had 850 listening to him in Manchester Cathedral. I know who won.

Only 850? Momentum is slipping

My post wasn't as silly as you think, lemongrove because, while you cannot change an actual government while it is in power, people can have an influence on legislation through lobbying, responding to consultations, protesting and even initiating legal challenges.

Governments always have an Opposition which can propose and carry amendments to legislation if they can demonstrate that their amendment is sensible or that it is likely to alienate not only their voters, but also the government's voters, if it isn't carried. Any government wants to be returned for a further term and is conscious that if its legislation is too unpopular it is likely to lose them votes. at the next general election.

There is nothing straightforward, or set in stone, about governance.

Do you think Jacob Rees-Mogg saying the conference is like a North Korean rally is helpful, then?

From the Twitter conversation :

Stephen Brown @StephenWFLabour
2 Oct
Yes he was. If you want to ignore what JRM and his lot are doing and in who's name suit yourself; but you're only fooling yourself.

Lydia Suffield @lydiaenigma
2 Oct
Mate, I really don't care. I'm going to vote for a party that's going to help my family.

Tories get the 'I'm all right Jack' vote.

More JRM idiocy:

I'm afraid you need to follow the link and read the thread

Jo Maugham QC‏Verified account
@JolyonMaugham

This from hedge fund gazillionaire, @Jacob_Rees_Mogg. Who can't understand why capitalism might suffer a crisis of legitimacy.

twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/915519431811493893

I think JRM and many other Tories (possibly all), plus a lot of Labour politicians actually believe that capitalism is a force for good and that it is because of the 'principle' of capitalism that living standards have been rising globally for auite some time now.

While one might not agree with this belief in the usefulness of capitalism it is simplistic to say it is idiocy.

On another Mogg note, apparently The Mogg's fringe meetings, or whatever they're called (I'm not up on conference-speak), have been jam-packed whereas, according to comentators and with the exception of Ruth Davidson much of the rest of the conference has been lack-lustre.

The entire conference has been lack lustre. The Tories have completely run out if ideas.

Capitalism doesn't mean that we don't have to share the proceeds of growth, nor does it mean that we cannot give foreign aid.

Unbridled capitalism did give us the Victorian era. Which is a place that no-one in their right minds wishes to return to.

Perhaps Mogg lovers would like to tell me what 'positive benefits' of Brexit he's explaining to his adoring audience in this clip.

twitter.com/Channel4News/status/914941451615817728

Nice recital of supposed past glories (though he seems to forget that the 100 Years War ended up with England losing all its French possessions and that Waterloo was won by a European army, not by the British) but what relevance do they have to Brexit benefits.?

He may have "manners" but I'm afraid that won't win him any votes with younger people who will just see him as an entitled tosser.
Unless the Tories can start appealing to younger voters they are doomed.
The only problem is that they are intent on wrecking our public services and making millions of lives a misery before they sink beneath those blue-tinted waves.

I agree with your comments at 13:11, maiz, but I think it's worth mentioning that not all Victorian capitalists were scoundrels. Many put quite a lot of their capital back into the communities they lived in, witness schools, hospitals, civic buildings, etc.

I have a feeling that in some parts of the developing world we could define working and living conditions as 'Victorian' in the sense you mean. But even those are gradually being improved as happened here, and the argument goes that it is capitalism that is ennabling that improvement.

Apparently Theresa May's promise of a freeze on tuition fees and the promise of £10 billion to help young adults buy their own homes is supposed to woo young folk. I doubt it will woo many away from Labour under Jeremy Corbyn.

I also doubt that the Tories are "intent on making millions of lives a misery". I really doubt that that is their intention. How would that improve their election chances?

They think that a few millions of miserable "scroungers" who probably wouldn't vote for them anyway, don't matter, Baggs?

Ha! and I thought I was a cynical bastard, FN!

That aside, do you really think Theresa May thinks like that, or even subconsciously 'allows' it? I don't.

I do.

It doesn’t matter what May thinks - it is what the Tory membership thinks and yes from some young members who can write “gas the chavs” and other indescribably awful things, I think that the Tories think exactly that.

They know perfectly well, for instance, that Universal Credit is causing huge problems for those working and trying to support a family on low wages. If your in work benefits are changing to Universal Credit there is a 6 week gap - how are the low paid supposed to cope with that? Do they give a damn? Not at all. They think these people don't matter because they are unlikely to vote, or to vote Tory. There is however a disconnect between this and all their rhetoric about work being the way out of poverty and Tories helping people to get on in life. Young members of the Tory party are know for getting laughs by burning money in front of homeless people.

Baggs I know you are trying to get honest, thoughtful replies, and trying to get some posters with entrenched left wing views to think outside the box, but it ain’t gonna happen. To them, all Tories are ‘evil’ in fact I have never come across such narrow minded posts as on here.We all have a different view politically as to how our country should be run best, but to think that Conservatives are all, millions of them, personally despicable is beyond me ( beyond JRM as well.)
It’s a very limited mindset.

JessM said "If your in work benefits are changing to Universal Credit there is a 6 week gap - how are the low paid supposed to cope with that?"

That is a straightforward question about a genuine situation created by the Tory government.

(I don't think anyone on here has said 'evil' or 'despicable', have they?)

Bit like that banner in Manchester that said "Hang the Tories", ww, and which had two hanged effigies attached. Lovely.

Thanks, lem. Glad someone gets it . Actually, I was just thinking earlier today that my posts on political threads are really for my own benefit, a thought sorting out thinking process to improve my understanding of certain concepts. Capitalism, for instance. I think I'm beginning to have some understanding of it after a lifetime of not really and wondering what all the fuss (for and against) was about.

I read something about adjustments that were to be made because of the problematic gap. Some have argued that having one benefit replace six should make things simpler, which doesn't sound altogether implausible.

There is one thing confusing me though. Is it six "in work" benefits that have been made into one or six benefits of people not in work? I ask because someone (politician) said that the six week wait was about getting people to learn how to cooe with payment in arrears, as most job wages/salaries work. When you're struggling on a very low income a switch that causes several weeks' wait is going to be horribly difficult, but once the switch period is over it shouldnt, continue to be a problem, should it?