Let's not forget Brexit

The health costs are the main worry for Brits living in the EU - it will be prohibitively expensive if this reciprocal agreement does not keep on going. The state pensions should continue to be paid but as you say the increases may not - also we need assurances that Govt pensions will continue. The U.K. Govt need to agree to pay the pensions of the U.K. Citizens who have been working for the UK/EU govt. and this has yet to made definite.
I worry that some small print will be found somewhere which will give the Govt Carte Blanche to do as they wish with our money. As someone mentioned on one of the threads many of us still pay UK income tax at source on our Govt pensions and the again in the EU as some countries do not have the same sort of personal allowance.

The EU are ready to grant the same rights as we have now and always have been but the UK Govt sort of changed the agreement on this a while back and started back tracking so of course they (EU) have not yet put it in writing and time and again the EU say all Eu and UK citizens should have the same rights etc as they do now. It needs to be agreed at a meeting of the two sides and all will be well with that part.

Exactly, Weslwife. That's all. Doesn't seem too difficult, does it, unless, like May, you are trying to wriggle out of your commitments.

The other thing they are trying to change is the two year rule. If an EU citizen goes abroad for two years, they will have lost their rights. That doesn't happen now to EU citizens. Why should it after Brexit?

Some interesting insights in this link.

How Theresa May is being ‘shepherded’ to a hard Brexit by a multibillionaire Dubai-based New Zealand fund manager

tompride.wordpress.com/2017/10/13/how-theresa-may-is-being-shepherded-to-a-hard-brexit-by-a-multibillionaire-dubai-based-new-zealand-fund-manager/

farnorth yes there are so many similar who stand to gain fabulously from Brexit, which offers nothing but misery for the UKs ordinary folk.

The government are puppets dancing to their tune.

durhamjen ignorant then, no you don't have to respond to my post that's not my issue, trying to be clever and referring to me in the third person is.

"Doesn't seem too difficult, does it, unless, like May, you are trying to wriggle out of your commitments."

Being personal again I see durhamjen , why do you do it!
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No , the question I asked has not been answered.

I have asked why the EU have not unilaterally given the same rights to UK citizens , irrespective of what the UK does. That is a plain and simple question.

The same posters have repeatedly said the UK/ May should unilaterally give the EU citizens the same rights as they have now whether or not a Reciprocal Arrangement was agreed.

May has been castigated as some kind of witch (now some idiot will no doubt say I agree with you POGS she is), yet the likes of Junker, Verhofstadt , Tusk have been seen as kind, benevolent . No they are not.

So I am asking why does the EU not unilaterally give UK citizens the same rights as they have now, I am not asking a question about the UK government I am interested as to why one side are seen as being malevolent for not unilaterally giving rights the other is benevolent.

Maybe, POGS because it was more incumbent on the UK, as the body proposing to sever ties with the EU, to guarantee the existing rights of EU nationals who have come to work and settle here in good faith.

That they have been regarded as bargaining chips is appalling and another of the nastinesses which make me ashamed to be British at the moment.

pogs that isn’t quite right, and the answer is to be found in an EU document which is 74 pages long. When I’ve got time I’ll trawl through it and get back to you.

It is all to do with the legality surrounding “acquired rights”

Might be later today or even tomorrow as bit busy at the moment.

Quite funny.
In one post I get told off for not being personal, and in the next for being personal.
I must be doing something right, then.

By the way, POGS, how was I being personal.
If I'd said unless like May one is trying to wriggle out of one's commitments, I'd have been criticised for being too posh.
Admit it, you just have to criticise me, personally.

This is from the3million website, and shows how much information is required by each country for anyone wanting to become a resident.

docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0d3854_c7578b0552ec4231a8dbaf0a9d08dc69.xls?dn=PR%20requirements%20in%20EU%20states.xls

The average for EU countries is 4 pages. For the UK it is 85 pages.
The list of required documents is rather long for the UK.
It makes me think the government doesn't believe people, so heaven knows what it makes those applying think.

POGS, why should the EU make things easier for UK citizens at the moment?
WE are the ones who are leaving the EU.
THEY don't want us to leave.

Basically POGS because the likelihood is that once the UK has left it will not be up to the EU to decide, it will be up to our host nations. We have applied for and received permanent residency cards in France based on our rights as EU members. When the UK leaves we will probably have to apply again and will be in the same situation as Americans or Australians, for example.
Groups of UK migrants are meeting with EU authorities and there has been a very positive dialogue, but we are still in a state of great uncertainty.

Have to say DJ that while the basic form was 4 pages, it took me 60 hours to assemble our dossiers, five visits to the préfecture, 200€ in certificates and translations, lots of photographs and our fingerprints. Not easy at all.

France doesn't have a certain number of pages, Mamie, because each prefecture has different rules.
The other thing is you don't have to pay the government. In the UK it's £65. Also, all documents have to be originals.
Some of the people who have been told they cannot have residency had not submitted their passports because they needed them. It can take up to six months, another problem with the cuts the government has made.

Our préfecture had four pages DJ. After twelve years here I am well aware of the fact that different préfectures have different rules and of the many challenges of French bureaucracy!
In some préfectures original birth and marriage certificates are not accepted and certificates have to be issued within the last three months and then translated into English. This can end up very expensive at c£20 a certificate and c35€ a translation.
Our dossiers included details of five years proof of residence, five years of tax returns, proof of health cover and proof of income.
I am not for one minute condoning the behaviour of the Home Office and the distress of EU nationals in the UK. It is an appalling situation for all of us who are caught up in this.

I agree, Mamie. Only 3million EU citizens in the UK, though, so they don't matter! Only 1.5 million like you.
I can't believe that original birth certificates are not accepted!
How weird.

In France your certificates are updated for every life event (divorce etc) so they think ours are the same and demand recent ones. Some people have submitted their certificates and translations for nationality and the process takes so long that they are out of date and have to submit new ones. ?

How can they expect an updated birth certificate, though?
Even the French must realise that we are only born once!

Issued by GRO or similar in the last three months! Replacement certificates from the UK do have a date on the bottom. The French (and Spanish I think) have a “livret de famille” where the "story" of a family is recorded and I think the certificates are kept at the local Mairie so it isn't all held centrally as it is in the UK.
I think it is one of those things that is logical in one system and bonkers in another. ?

Hard to tell which system has the most hoops to pass through. I suppose you only really find out about the system in the country you are moving to.
However, having French nationality will make it easier for anyone to travel throughout the EU once the UK has left the EU.

Yes, but nationality involves all the new, translated certificates from out parents as well!

I think the thing is that in France you learn very quickly to keep every single bit of paperwork you have ever had and you know that everything will be complex and involve lots of photocopying. Once you have a big enough filing cabinet and a photocopier you are fine. ?

Needed 3-5000 customs officers. Anyone know how long it takes to train a customs officer"? Last I heard it was a minimum of 18 months with work experience in-between. That is of course when they had the infrastructure to work in.

The whole customs thing is impossible. No space at Dover, no possibility of space at the tunnel and why would France and Holland spend the money on the infrastructure? It would be a 10-15 year project at least.