EU wants us to pay 89 BILLION divorce charges.

Hmm...

I'm not too sure that your assumption that all the people you've listed are poorly educated and ill informed does you much credit, firecracker.

Of course you would say that MaizieD because you probably agree with varian. You are just trying to deflect my post.

*Suzied
I don't know about licence on the vermouth
I have to admit to owning 3 German cars, one Ford, built in Spain, but OHs Ford was built in the uk in 1937.
There's not a lot you can do about cars, but if we were to change the German made Motohome we would go for one made in the US.

I do not think it helps the discussion to make negative assumptions about the people who voted either way.

The truth of the matter is that the referendum was deeply flawed and everyone was faced with a choice about which we had been given insufficient information. It was poorly drawn up with no conditions about turnout or margins.

We are all now in the same boat together and should be pulling together to get the best deal we can out of the EU, whose current attitude sums up for me the many concerns that I have had about the organisation over many years.

In Australia one of the topics of conversation at the moment is the plebiscite being held on gay marriage. I understand that the Government does not have to act on the result of a plebiscite but they would be foolish to ignore a result in favour (I think that consensus of opinion would seem to indicate that).

It would have been interesting if DC had held a plebiscite not a referendum and which way we would be going now, but that is all academic
of course.

Luckygirl I agree and particularly with your last paragraph.

All this talk about who reads which newspaper, job of work, financial status etc, which apparently enhances or denotes their intellectual prowess, is astonishing coming from left wing voters who surely disapprove of this blatant, worse type of upside down snobbery. Looking down disparagingly on other people was once the habit of the rich and powerful, and very unpleasant it was, and in certain cases still is, but now we have intellectual snobbery as well, which is just as bad, if not worse.

What? Firecracker is a leftwing voter?
I would never have guessed that.

Of course you would say that MaizieD because you probably agree with varian.

Well, you are quite wrong, firecracker. I was merely pointing out that your list of people who you think that varian looks down on is making some very sweeping assumptions about them. Which, ironically, is the behaviour you were complaining about.

Nellie, I don't know if you've ever noticed this but varian isn't a 'left winger'. She's a Lib Dem.

Firecracker I sneer at nobody, but I am sorry so many people were influenced to vote leave by their newspapers. A survey of a 30,000-strong online panel found that only 41 per cent of those who said they do not read a newspaper voted Leave (versus 52 per cent of the general population) and this difference is highly significant. The Express, Sun and Daily Mail had the strongest influence on their readers.
www.pressgazette.co.uk/study-readers-of-the-sun-express-and-daily-mail-strongly-favoured-brexit-in-eu-referendum/

This is not about sneering or stereotyping people, it is merely reporting facts. There will obviously be individuals who hold different views from their regular paper and voted differently, but this is about statistics. If you are a regular newspaper reader you are most likely to vote as advised by the people who control its content. These proprietors (foreign billionaires and tax exiles) have colossal power to influence elections and this was the decisive factor in the leave campaign winning a narrow majority of those who voted.

I know that the Guardian supports remaining in the EU, but it is not the paper I buy. I read the "i" which I recommend to you as it was shown the be the most unbiased of all our national press.

That's the one I read as well, varian.
It certainly doesn't appear to be the paper for Trots and Marxists.

I can't say that I've ever thought that The Guardian was a paper for Trots and Marxists either.

The Socialist Worker, maybe...

The Socialist Worker argued strongly against remaining in the EU. Just a thought

Odd, isn't it? Left wing wants to leave because the EU is a hotbed of seething capitalism and Right wing wants to leave because it doesn't seethe enough for their liking...

Or perhaps the SW just sees an opportunity to start the Revolution in the Brexit chaos...

Just trying to find out who you thought the turkeys were the posts that followed are par for the course and just as expected and yes in my opinion most remainer posts sneer or are condescending towards the posters who voted Leave like I did or post supporting Leave that's why hardly any new posters post on the political threads and who can blame them.

Firecracker123 using the word sneering against varian is simply the pot calling the kettle black.

* All this talk about who reads which newspaper, job of work, financial status etc, which apparently enhances or denotes their intellectual prowess, is astonishing coming from left wing voters who surely disapprove of this blatant, worse type of upside down snobbery. Looking down disparagingly on other people was once the habit of the rich and powerful, and very unpleasant it was, and in certain cases still is, but now we have intellectual snobbery as well *

You know nigglynellie, this aspect of it all, so prevalent too, shocks me as well.

Liberal lefties tend to be virtue signalling about their 'compassion' and call the Conservatives the 'nasty party' yet indulge in so much sneering and condescension towards others who think differently from them. There were some protesting outside the Conservative party conference in Manchester who were very savage indeed.

It's like a snooty club of liberal elites, an association of haughty, dismissive left-wing Remainers who feel they always know best and know more than others. It's sickening but they tend to dominate social media.

Those who voted to Leave are portrayed by some Remainers as thick and ill-educated when in my experience that is not the case. Most leavers I know are grounded, intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate people who want the very best for the UK and the people living here.

As Luckygirl mentioned, we have to put aside our thoughts about those who voted differently from us. Division and disagreement serves no one well. We are leaving the EU and ought to be pulling together now to ensure our future is as bright as it can be. Predictions of gloom and doom once the deed is done serve no purpose.

What will be, will be and I am one soothsayer (because all we are getting are predictions) who sees a much brighter future for the UK once we leave the clutches of the greedy, unaccountable and power-seeking 'federal' EU.

Paddyann

The EU ISN'T in control of laws thats WESTMINSTER ,the EU has only control over a very small %


You are very wrong or misguided unfortunately. According to House of Commons Library research, if one counts regulations as well as directives, at least HALF of all UK laws are derived from Brussels, measures that cannot be reversed once passed.

If even one law is made outside parliament, then that is a huge abuse of power. We have no come back.

Unaccountable, Day6?

There were two members of the government frontbench today to discuss universal benefit.
That's unaccountability.

If even one law is made outside parliament, then that is a huge abuse of power. We have no come back.

Unfortunately, Day6 if you take 'regulations' as your criteria for a 'law' then it just can't be done, in or out of the EU. All trade around the world depends on regulations, which are not debated in Parliament.

The Socialist Worker argued strongly against remaining in the EU. Just a thought

Indeed nightowl.

It is a complete mystery why so many left-leaning people support the EU.

Perhaps they fear being labelled racist or xenophobic or something so bought into the establishment propaganda?

The Eurozone is a disaster. The EU is driving austerity with cheap labour and ensuing big profits for large corporations. It's driven by big business. It's corporate. Not only that it has created social problems galore in terms of work, wages, housing, education. It stirs suspicion because it's not transparent and has threatened a sense of 'self' throughout Europe. It's as though one large melting pot is the desirable outcome. No one wins, except those on the gravy train of power and privilege.

I cannot for the life of me understand why those who vote Labour can support it.

If the EU had limited influence - to trade - it wouldn't be so worrying. There are rules and regulations now part of our everyday lives which were created in Brussels MaizieD.

Parliamentary power has been given to Brussels. That is an abuse of our democracy.

day6 I am interested to understand which laws not relating to ensuring a level playing field for businesses, but simply interfering with our domestic laws there are.

The exact number of UK laws influenced by the EU is hard to confirm. But remember the UK has had an enormously influential position in forming EU laws.

If we leave the EU, as these foriegn billionaire newspaper proprietors would like us to do, we will for ever relinquish our position of power and influence in the EU, the world's greatest trading block, and in the world. We would become a "has-been" state. That is not what I want for my grandchildren.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36473105