The Irish question

Of course I would vote the same way again! You are suggesting I should only vote for who I thought would win!

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nhs-sir-vince-cable-eu-300m-a-week-stop-budget-a8088756.html

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-divorce-bill-cost-theresa-may-pressure-reveal-tory-mps-a8085791.html

You were asking about what should be done in the real world.
If the government handed over the proper statements that they had done, so we could all see that we would lose out, then have a second referendum, it would solve the problem.
I hope those in the real world have better things to do than read gransnet.
I know my MP does.

Do you think they read Gransnet?

Yes. Tell everybody the truth about Brexit and stay in the EU.
That will solve the problem.

Does anyone on here know exactly what to do - or if they think they do, how to go about it? If we all knew exactly what to do we would be doing it wouldn't we?

It's all very well armchair pundits saying what ought to be done - getting things done in the real world is another matter altogether.

Lemon is always saying she doesn't know what to do and we should just leave them all to get on with it.
That sounds like she is saying she is clueless to me.
You don't regret voting to leave and would do it again, even though you thought the vote would be to remain, and you don't know what to do either.
So it's the fault of brexiteers that we are in this mess, and they don't know what to do to get us out of it, whether in government or out?
When you even have David Davis saying he will resign you know we really are in the proverbial.

Don't be like that Whitewave. Lemon isn't clueless, that was very rude.

Actually I don't regret voting to leave and would do so again. I still think it'll be the best thing in the long run. I just don't have any confidence that it will actually happen. I fear we've been well and truly trapped in a tangled ill run, badly organised, money wasting black hole which will eventually implode on itself.

lemon can’t jura because she is clueless

We have not left lemon - not yet ...

But please, as much as I respect your views- please do give us ONE, just one, positive fact/ outcome so far of the Leave decision. Just one reason why you feel it was the best decision ever - not feelings, not views - fact. Thank you.

No regrets here about Leaving the EU, best decision ever!

Royal 'we', nellie ?

Also 'Royal' our parents, as in our parents, would NEVER have entertained joining.

I don't think anyone on here ever even met mine, let alone knew their views on the EU.

Figure of speech MasieD, nothing more sinister than that!

I have seen it suggested that the sensible thing to have done after the Leave vote would have been to have gone back to the EU and used the vote as a negotiating point for reform.

But, of course, Cameron had already painted the government into a corner by promising to 'respect the result' and turned tail and fled once his bluff had been called.

I just wonder how many other people voted "Leave", not because they actually wanted to see the UK leave the EU, but just to make a point, and are shocked at the result, like NfkDumpling who now tells us:

"Personally I hadn't expected that Brexit would actually happen. Like most I was surprised that the vote went the way it did, I'd only hoped that it'd make the EU more reasonable and take on board Mr Cameron's proposals. I then expected the vote to have been taken as a recommendation and was amazed when it was taken seriously"

Royal 'we', nellie ?

I have absolutely no regrets about my Remain vote in 1975 and am not in the least bit afraid of what the EU has become.

I am, though, in mortal fear of what the UK has become.

Of course we didn't realise what we were letting ourselves into all those years ago with enthusiasm else we, and almost certainly our parents, would NEVER have entertained joining. We were duped plain and simple, which makes feeling the way some of us now do, very sad and very let down. If only we could have been asked when further integration was being considered! But of course we might have said No, which would have spoilt the now obvious end plan! Ever been had?!!

If you read the documents you will see a fine analyses of the issues and potential solutions. What has our rabble come up with? Bugger all of any use. Utter incompetence.

I know they never wanted to be in that position, I had noticed. I was just asking if they had any constructive solutions. It's the constant "It's your fault, you started it" playground mentality which makes me despair. Messes happen. We shouldn't have entered an agreement in the first place with no workable get-out clause. Blaming and passing the buck doesn't solve any problems. Coming together and compromise does.

nfk they never wanted to be in that position, it was the misguided vote in the U.K. that has put us into the position of threatening peace and stability in Ireland. I can’t see how on earth the onus should be on Brussels to come with a solution.

Of course this is something that the government should have addressed before the referendum took place, and certainly as a priority since, but no. Arrogance and ignorance and thinking that the 58 pieces of non-existent fag paper would be sufficient.

Lets hope that Brussels have a workable solution as well then. Bet not.

If anyone is interested Brussels has produced an excellent document relating to NI and Brexit. It is a detailed and a good analysis of the issues.

Something our lot do not have even considered until recently and even now are clearly in a total muddle, especially with the DUP breathing down their necks .

I fear that the hatred between Sinn Fein and the DUP which simmers away under the surface will prevent any compromise or positivity to keep any sort of open border. It'll be all or nothing. We'll come away with a very hard Brexit and a very hard border or the whole leaving exercise will go t*ts up.

Personally I hadn't expected that Brexit would actually happen. Like most I was surprised that the vote went the way it did, I'd only hoped that it'd make the EU more reasonable and take on board Mr Cameron's proposals. I then expected the vote to have been taken as a recommendation and was amazed when it was taken seriously ( I do wonder if there's a hidden agenda). I now fear that the EU will still win and we will be forced to stay in with dire consequences. We will be made to pay for our disobedience to keep the other countries in line. We are after all, the only country that's really strong enough to make a stand. I wonder how many, all those years ago, who voted to join the Common Market realised what they were committing us to.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-donald-tusk-ireland-uk-offer-eu-britain-leo-varadkar-a8087556.html

Sounds fair to me.