The Irish question

Why did the Daily Politics not even mention the free movement of people in relation to the Irish border?

As usual the BBC give JRM a very easy ridel

I agree with Grumppa - both campaigns were pretty unenlightening but, instead of relying on high profile/high status people like Bob Geldof, Richard Branson and Barack Obama (the interventions of whom actually got a lot of people's backs up), the Remain team could have done so much more to warn people of the serious practical issues around leaving the EU, and been far more probing as to whether those in the Leave camp were properly prepared to carry out an orderly exit.

Why did nobody mention the "divorce" bill and the issues surrounding Ireland and Gibraltar, along with many other real and unavoidable problems that would arise.

We now hear of thousands of people being recruited to sort out the contractual/legal issues - and it has been said that thousands more civil servants will be needed after we leave the EU to take on duties which had previously been performed by EU departments, and also that substantial increases in civil servants will arise as a result of leaving, e.g.customs officials.

The issue of EU immigration seemed to focus almost entirely on "joint benefits", more particularly that UK citizens would find it much harder to work and travel in Europe if we were to leave. There wasn't much said about our huge reliance on EU workers and the very real likelihood of their sudden exodus creating major problems in many areas of employment. Or of the likely reluctance of any other EU workers to want to come to a country where they face all sorts of bureaucratic obstacles and ongoing feelings of insecurity and being unwelcome.

I found this interesting thread about the border situation on Mumsmet yesterday . I think it's worth reading because many of the contributors are Irish, both from NI and ROI, so they are very directly concerned and much more knowledgeable than us about the whole topic.

They don't seem to hold out much hope of a solution.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a3096781-What-do-people-think-is-most-likely-to-happen-with-the-Irish-UK-border

Hilary Benn going to be discussing the problem of the border on Daily Politics.

In which case they had better be ready for all the immigrants who want to move to the UK coming through Ireland rather than Calais.

Hard borders.

Of course NI would never agree to leaving the UK, that goes without saying, surely.
If the EU gets enough money from us you can be sure that an answer will be found ( for everything) because it is all about the money from their point of view.
The government have said many times there will be no hatd borders.

Usual opinion seems to be that Eire would not want unification anyway.

nfkD - Sinn Fein (reported by Reuters) are now seeing a real opportunity and pushing hard for NI to leave the UK and join up (eg be assimilated - story repeats itself) ... with Eire and remain in EU.

That will surely bring Peace and Love just in time for Christmas .... or not. I have relatives in NI, right on the border - they are very sensible and open, tolerant people - but would never agree to that. They live in NI but cross several times a week on business, sometimes several times a day.

After all we’re not the only EU country with land borders!
No but borders between EU and Non-EU countries are "hard" borders and this wouldn't be acceptable, between Eire and N Ireland.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dup-theresa-may-tory-deal-ireland-border-brexit-irish-border-northern-ireland-a8085046.html

No, but we are the only one wanting to leave the EU. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for Brexit. Even ardent Brexiteers must have realised that.
All you are trying to do is pass the buck to people who don't want us to leave.

I don’t think us Brexiteers considered that Ireland wasn’t important, I had wondered how it could have been sorted, but I assumed (wrongly) that as the Irish were now on better terms and they would be able to work it through. The fact is there is a provision for leaving the EU so it ought to be possible. With all the thousands of people working at EU head office, all those lawyers, surely there should be provision made? After all we’re not the only EU country with land borders!

"Oh and we also want our southern border to stay in Calais, as otherwise it will cost us too much money and waste too much of our time. Apart from that, we want our borders back."

Exactly what I said, Nfk. Brexiteers didn't consider it important enough. They are finding out now that it is.
Not only that, it could this break up the United Kingdom and get us another election because the DUP will not support any of the options.
All because a few more people wanted to be more important in the world than they were before the referendum.
"We want control of our borders - but not that one, as we don't know what to do with it.."

Sorry, put this on the wrong thread so copied and pasted it over.

There seem to be three ways we could not have a physical boarder between Ireland and Northern Ireland and they are either the reunification of the two parts of the island of Ireland or the UK continues to be part of a single market and adheres to the free movement of people and goods or the EU relieves Ireland of the need to have a border into a third country.

Any solution would be have to contain something to satisfy these views.

Did I say Liverpool and Glasgow weren't ports? I was just repeating what was said on the radio that Liverpool would benefit from extra trade. Therefore I assumed Glasgow would too.

If all the brains in power haven't come up with a solution to the Irish border problem yet Jen I don't think I stand a chance. And it's not up to me. It's up to the Irish. They could become united as one nation, they/we could put up a wall and they could do a whole lot of things in between. The longer it drags on the more options are being put on the table and the more the waters are being muddied. Can't think why unless the EU negotiators and Remainers are being obstructive, but that wouldn't happen, would it.

When we voted to leave the EU, one of the main reasons was for control over our borders.
Now we are saying we don't want border control between the UK and the EU because it's in Ireland.
I'd really like a brexiteer to explain how we can do this.

ukandeu.ac.uk/brexit-and-immigration-control-in-northern-ireland/

Or had you all forgotten about Ireland?

Is Liverpool no longer a port, then? Or Glasgow?

Apparently (heard on Radio Four) Liverpool is looking forward to trade to the rest of the world. They suffer from everything going the other way to Europe. I would assume Glasgow would benefit in the same way.

So the Scottish problem is how to attract people from the south northwards - since the south east is sinking into the sea under the weight of the population! Do you have a lot of jobs vacant up there? (I haven’t been to Scotland for 43 years. I remember midges at Loch Lommond, loving Oban, the wonderful long views and going into a pub and nearly being chucked out as women weren’t allowed in!)

For a start, NfkDumpling, we need more, not fewer, immigrants in Scotland - our demographics are not the same as yours in England - and are going to suffer from the lack of EU workers. We are also going to suffer all the economic problems that you are, of course. How exactly do you think that Glasgow will benefit? Assuming that Brexit actually happens, of course.

Well could it be that, at the end of the day, the Irish question and the DUP will be the final straw ?

Paddyann - why will Scotland's economy nosedive? I live in a part of the country which everyone drives past and is ignored, so I am genuinely curious. Won't Glasgow benefit as they expect Liverpool to?
I have Scottish friends who voted out. But they live here.

Would we not still be in Interpol?

It's a bit like saying we don't need to be in Europol because there will always be crooks.

This is a very interesting article about exports from Eire to EU:

www.politico.eu/article/cargo-food-production-producers-brexit-burns-irelands-british-bridge-to-eu-markets/

Of course drugs and illegal immigation can't be ever stopped - but I can assure you that it is worth having a system that at least tries