Corbyns Inertia

theportugalnews.com/news/one-in-ten-portuguese-living-in-poverty/38024

Actually, you never hear anything bad about Portugal, and that's been a socialist country for a few generations/centuries.

Tell that to my next door neighbours! The reason they moved here 8 years ago was because their standard of living and wages was so low that they couldn't afford to live from day to day. No work. Low wages. No jobs for young people leaving school or university.

One in ten living in poverty , not a wise example to put forward in praise of a so called socialist country

I thought that Portugal had a military regime not that long ago which followed a very authoritarian type of government but I could be mistaken.

"In an attempt to correct its economic problems, Portugal’s government implemented a series of harsh austerity measures, including a higher tax on many food products. This means that those who can afford food often have little money left over to save, invest or generally improve their circumstances. Austerity measures such as these can have a particularly harsh effect on small businesses, which abound in Portugal.
Unemployment is one of the leading causes of poverty in Portugal. In 2016, in an attempt to decrease the budget deficit, 27 percent of all managerial positions in government were cut, as well as 40 percent of government departments. This left a great many people out of work and struggling to get by. Unemployment is currently 14%. "

Doesn't sound like a socialist utopia to me.

Actually, you never hear anything bad about Portugal
In fact, we never hear that much about Portugal at all, except for the devastating fires that they had.

My dentist is Portuguese and he is divine.

I am very fond of Portugal.

And affluent ? I assume he has a practise in this country

Because the Soviet state eventually strayed far from Marx's idea of socialism towards Lenin's totalitarian communism, socialism is now often used to mean everything from "fascism" to "progressivism." But in its purest form, socialism was a political, social, and economic system meant to empower the working class. In the U.S. today, though, it's often used as shorthand for "the services that government provides and which are paid for by taxes." Depending on who's talking, that idea is either a goal or a target.

(for 'U.S' you could equally read 'UK')

This is a better definition in that it doesn't equate socialism and communism and the note that it's used as 'shorthand' for 'any' sort of state control conveys the way that most people use the term. It's a far more nuanced way of distinguishing between the two.

History tells us that most 'communist' states have only come into being by means of revolution and violent suppression of opposition. I think it's absurd to equate the two in the way they are being equated in this discussion. Unless, of course, you visualise a Labour government leading a bloody revolution and throwing its opponents into prison (or worse). The army would never stand for it for a start... Our democracy does encompass freedom to oppose; I really cannot see it altering radically.

maizie the line about the US/UK is so right and one I’ve been banging on about for ever.

We visit Portugal every winter. It's very sad to see that things are not getting any better.
Unfortunately they are stuffed because of the austerity measures laid down by the IMF and the EU. (Re bail out)
I read that in 2013 alone 120,000 people left Portugal. These will be the educated and skilled people.
That only makes things worse for poorer countries.

I apologise trisher I was out of order.

Point taken.

whitewave
should there be a at the end of your post?

Petra my neighbour is a civil engineer and he came to the UK in 2009 with his partner and 2 children. He had been unemployed for 2 years in Portugal and was struggling to feed the family, keep afoof over their heads and support his own, and his partners, elderly parents. His partner told me that, if it wasnt for them sending 600 euros a month back to Portugal, their parents would have almost nothing to live on. He's also paying for a nephew to attend an international school because the Portuguese state schools are, in her words, much worse than in England because of huge cuts to their education budget. Apparently, more than 60% of Portuguese adults never reached high school education level because the need to leave school, find a job and earn money was too high. Neither of them have a good word to say about Juncker.

Thanks MaizieD

petra so the people leaving Portugal because of these measures are the very people they need to bring the country back on its feet, to prosperity.

Unemployment has gone up in Croatia too, since they joined the EU. It was high before but is even higher now at 20%. I know of some who have lost their jobs and left to find employment elsewhere (not in the EU).

I am sure that Portugal will however be pleased to know that their budget deficit as a percentage of gdp at 2% is better than the Uks at 3%.

It has now achieved a level of fiscal health since it elected a socialist government, that has reversed the austerity policies imposed under a centre right government which were crippling Portugal’s economy.

This means that it has left the EU excessive debt procedures which only allows a % of 3% or under, to the delight of all.

Things are looking up then?

But will the skilled return?
And will their services improve now?

jalima my divine dentist? He is so gorgeous. A few years ago he proposed to his now wife on a beach in Portugal and she promptly lost the engagement ring. She was so upset that he got up very early the next morning and retraced their steps and lo and behold found it in the sand on the beach. How about that for luck?A marriage that was clearly meant to be!

He now has two children.

But you are at a great disadvantage when you go to see him!
Mine is an Amazon but she is lovely as well. We discuss her DC and my DGC - when she is not peering into my mouth.

she promptly lost the engagement ring.
I hope she's not so careless with him

see them quite a bit trundling around the supermarket with children in tow.

I hope she is hanging on to him
Out of interest do you ever see them in the sweet and chocolate aisle?

(I'll get told off for sidetracking the thread)

I haven’t noticed if truth be told