The situation we're in this week with the NHS, cancelled operations, frail and ill patients sitting in queues of ambulances outside A and E, etc etc.
The health secretary and PM are insisting they planned well for these pressures. Every doctor/nurse Ive heard interviewed is saying the situation is desperate and that the issue is lack of resources.
Local Authorities funds have been devastated so patients who could be discharged home if social care was available remain in hospital. People stay on trollies in A and E rather than being discharged because there isn't a Consultant available to confirm they ca go home.
Does anyone have a sensible suggestion about how this situation can be improved. I don't see how it can improve without more money, we need to train and support our medical staff.
www.itv.com/news/2018-01-31/why-arent-european-hospitals-facing-a-winter-flu-crisis-like-the-nhs/
I presume this is it, GracesGran.
"He was clear that he believes more money needs to be spent in the UK, but also seemed a bit surprised that when we debate health we seem so resistant to studying and learning how others do it.
And that is perhaps the point: for decades we have looked westwards across the Atlantic at the way the Americans organise their health care, and felt a smug satisfaction that we don’t allow the inequalities and excesses of the US system.
But closer to hand, just across the Channel, a number of countries with a similar social system and spending similar amounts of money seem to be managing health care rather well.
Perhaps that’s where we should be looking."
Said by a German doctor who worked in the NHS for six years.
What I see is that money from their health service is not going to fund private healthcare companies and being lost from the NHS.
Also, the difference between 9.9% and 11.1% of GDP is quite a lot of money.
How much do employees pay into NI in the UK now?
In Germany they pay 14% of their pay.
Jalima which was the link for the comparison with Germany please?
I didn't put a link on, I'll try now:
www.itv.com/news/2018-01-31/why-arent-european-hospitals-facing-a-winter-flu-crisis-like-the-nhs/
They do spend more and many patients have to pay 10 euros per night for a stay (up to 30 nights) - but the main thing is that it is organised and funded differently.
Oh, I see that djen has put the link on already. Yes, that's the one. I answered before I read the other posts.
How much do employees pay into NI in the UK now?
I got the impression that the 14% goes solely to funding the health system - it is a health care tax, whereas our NI only partly goes towards the NHS and the rest of the funding comes from general taxation.
I wonder if people in receipt of pensions also pay this 14% healthcare tax?
But the 14% is half from the employer and half the employee, so it's actually less than our NI, I think.
I think our NI is now 12%?
yes, I've read i properly now, too tired to concentrate.
Thanks for the links Jen and Jelalima.
I do get the impression that a proportion of our country seem to think we are very like the USA culturally. I can only think they have never lived there. Looking to Europe to take some of the best from their systems seems to make sense to me.
It's interesting to see that Germany's tax is hypothecated. I do think that would make a difference to how people see and use the service.
If I remember rightly only 1% of NI goes to the NHS; the rest comes from general tax. NI is basically a work and end of work insurance.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ralf-little-raises-stakes-nhs-11948700
Do you think Hunt will be there?
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/you-think-you-pay-much-11957968
This is interesting. Puts spending into perspective.
www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/660
About the Accountable Care Organisations. You can see if your MP has signed the EDM, and ask them to if they have not, particularly if they are Libdem. I notice even SNP are signing up to it.
Sammy Wilson, DUP, has also signed it.
Well done, Bristol, for listening to your workers.
www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/southmead-hospital-bosses-scrap-proposal-1157104
I do feel we really do have to bite the bullet and reduce non essential treatments. We spend millions on IVF, (being childless is not an illness), millions on abortions, (except for rape - the mother and father should pay) millions on drug addiction (let them go cold turkey), millions on prolonging life for those with no quality of life, millions on pen pushers instead of medical staff, millions on multiple health boards which could be combined.
Why do we waste resources on people who will not give up smoking and have lung problems as a result, why do we treat drunks when their problems are self inflicted? Why operate on the morbidly obese when the chances of failure are so much greater.
If people are not intending to alter their lifestyles to comply with medical advice why treat them?
Medical advances mean that more and more expensive treatments will become available in the future, we have to draw the line somewhere.
Because the NHS was built on being free at the point of need?
How do we define need?
"If people are not intending to alter their lifestyles to comply with medical advice why treat them?" Well one reason might be that medical advice changes constantly, and it is hard to keep up.
Who is going to make these decisions about who to treat and why? Different people will have their own particular bandwagon like smoking, drinking, driving cars, playing dangerous sports, living too long..... the list could go on and on.
The NHS should be for all of us, with no value judgements because people will have different values.
If a doctor decides you are ill enough to go to hospital and have an operation, you definitely need it, don't you?
If you are given medication to stop you dying, you definitely need it, don't you?
You have to let somebody define need, and not someone who stands to benefit from privatisation of the NHS.
Save our NHS march today
If a doctor decides you are ill enough to go to hospital and have an operation, you definitely need it, don't you?
If you are given medication to stop you dying, you definitely need it, don't you?
Most definitely, but Esspee was questioning what should be treated and I was wondering about the difference in definition between 'need' and 'want'.
The trouble with say identifying smokers as having decided to self inflict disease and illness on themselves you are not taking into account so many other variables, not least questioning whether tobacco should be sold in the first place. Cultural practices etc.
Some could argue that smokers and drinkers pay more in tax than others therefore, if they need extra help from the NHS, they have paid for it anyway.
The government has abandoned A&E waiting times on the day that the NHS march is on.
Do you think they want to bury the news?
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/tens-thousands-march-fix-nhs-11962685
Good banners here.
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