Corbyns Torque

The tories I know , several have country estates, several doctors, farmers, builders labourers, self employed tradesmen, hairdressers, nurses, teachers, I know them personally so not guessing their political leanings. I also know liberals and labour doing the same jobs.

Totally - do you know any who are long term unemployed, long term on social, long term without a decent roof over their head, etc, etc? I don't.

You missed most on my list off your list Jura , yes I do know some unemployed who vote Tory. At the last election the conservatives vote increased in this constituency , labour and liberals dropped

Jura

"Oh POGS, because they are the shareholders, the bankers, the traders, the big bosses"

I understand what you are saying but to make sweeping statements that show you only think Shareholders , Big Bosses , Traders are ALL/ONLY Conservatives is , I will be kind in saying belongs in the past .

As for "It is not as though you didn't see what happened to miners, the steel workers, the car workers, and the rest from Thatcher onwards.". I will say I saw what happened to the car workers, and the rest because of the Militant Unions and the ease with which thousands of hard working men and women became unemployed because of the knock on effects of their behaviour both inside those industries and out.

As for "The Tories I know have top jobs, top private insurance, top houses and cars (many of them), top private schools for their kids, and have never come across social services either. "

Then all I can say is there are many Labour Lib-Dem supporters, even on GN, who have private insurance, maybe own more than one home, sent their kids to private school, have/had top jobs and their kids have never seen social services too so again I find your point belongs in the past.

I have voted Labour and Conservative over the years and I have no private insurance, my family used / use the state school system , never had a top job , quite the opposite, always drove old bangers and am in the Benefits System .

If I thought my life history put me in 'a box' , or anybody felt because of it they could 'make an assumption' about me I would say you are making an assumption not by knowing me as a person but because they hold a partisan view .

I do believe you are either reading me wrong, or distorting what I am saying. I never said all Tories are shareholders, bankers, etc- or that labour voters are never-

What I said if that the above are much more likely to be Tories- and that more or less all the ones at the very top of the ladder are- wherease most at 'the bottom' are more likely to be Labour voters.

Brexit will defo favour those at the top- with massive job losses, loss of workers right and minimum wage, NHS, good schools, etc, etc for others, Labour members included.

It does not mean you or anyone here has to belong to a 'box' - but this is the reality out there.

" I do believe you are either reading me wrong, or distorting what I am saying. I never said all Tories are shareholders, bankers, "

I am doing neither I am responding to your own words and comments which I found direct.

" Brexit will defo favour those at the top- with massive job losses, loss of workers right and minimum wage, NHS, good schools, etc, etc for others, Labour members included."

Nobody knows that will / could happen.

It is the typical clichéd statement that has been trotted out since the Referendum by one side of the debate. It may or may not hold but it is as factual as the other side of the Brexit debate stating everything will be hunky dory.

Talking of the NHS , schools etc.

That is another reason why I think the 20 - 1 pay ratio, raising Corporation Tax, so many of Labours 'cash cow' projects could in turn provide less finance to support the likes of them.

That can only be an ' opinion ' of course.

The Tories I know have top jobs, top private insurance, top houses and cars (many of them), top private schools for their kids, and have never come across social services either.
They have no idea what it is like to do without- at all.

I don't think you can state that categorically.

Judging from some I know who did shop work, no private insurance, rented house, lived on widows' pensions, never drove, free schooling for DC, had to have some help in later years with benefits but always were staunch Tory voters who hated the Labour party and thought they were a disaster for the country then I don't think you can categorise.

It's like saying all Labour voters are poor, honest hard workers doing all the manual work and the jobs that no-one else wants to do.

Neither is true.

Jalima, of course POGS can state categorically her experience. This does not mean it can be seen to be the same in all cases - more research would have to be done to know that - but you really cannot be so patronising about someone else's comments. In the same way your experience is equally valid.

Even on here we have seen people who are probably only comfortably off rather than rich but who have so little insight into what it is like to really be without enough - not just having to pull your belt in and reprioritise - that they were shocked when it was suggested that a Greggs sausage roll was a meal for some - rather than the snack they have always seen it as.

POGS was not saying "all" as you suggest but I would add my experience. The worst people I have come across for head-in-the clouds lack of knowledge are the none working wives of very rich men. They appear to live their lives without any knowledge but offer considerable judgement about the working lives of others.

Jalima- I clearly said 'all the Tories I KNOW'
that does not mean 'ALL Tories'

Brendon Cox and a group of people who have suffered from terrorist attacks have formed an anti terrorist campaign group . One of the group is Jo Berry, the daughter of an MP murdered in the IRA bombing in Brighton . She is a remarkable woman .

POGS just to clarify - it was jura's post I was replying to and not yours. I was not being patronising as Gracesgran seems to think.

jura of course, yes you did, I should not have said 'categorically', sorry.

Only 90 days to go before Ken Livingstone is readmitted to the Labour Party. There are already rumours that Tom Watson will be removed as Deputy and Ken will be installed on the front bench.

This is a surprise - not. So who next? George Galloway and David Hatton ? It's taken Comrade Corbyn 40 years but he has finally suceeded

The worst people I have come across for head-in-the clouds lack of knowledge are the none working wives of very rich men.
You may be right, I don't know any personally though so can't say.

I don't know multi millionaires either Jalima . We do have some wealthy families living here, not in the town, estates out of town. One runs Friends of The Hospital , she is very helpful in the dementia Ward , another works hard in their estate grounds which she opens to the public, monies go to local charities , one of the charities has received this money and have started a support scheme for women with post natal depression.

I do know of women who have never taken paid work after having a family (although not the wives of the very rich as I don't think I know any) and they have put their education and skills to good use in the kinds of way you mention Anniebach.
However, I have no way of knowing how they vote.

There were some seriously wealthy parents at DD's school. It I found them, both men & women, working or homemaking, extremely aware of political issues around poverty & opportunity. The stereotypical stay-at-home wife of a wealthy businessman, only concerned with her manicure matching her Louboutins was conspicuously absent.

GG....you don’t read things properly, as Jalima was clearly responding to words by jura, and not POGS.
Therefore your post was confusing!

There is one member of my family who is seriously wealthy. The same person wouldn't pee on someone if they were on fire (unless they paid him first). I was quite surprised to learn that he was a member of the Labour Party who gave up his membership when Corbyn was elected.

There can be no stereotypes now for how people vote.Things have moved on , and all are aspirational.

Lets not forget that £10 per hour minimum wage costs an employer a hell of a lot more in employers National Insurance and pension contribution etc.

True gillybob, and not all are raking in the money . I know someone who runs a coffee and book shop, pays crippling council tax , if she has to find another £200 plus the increases you listed she will have to close. She employs two single women who will be out of work . Two women multiplied by the number of very small businesses in the country , not enough to be concerned about for votes for Corbyn

Untill recently I use to drop into the conservative club for a chat with friends , no idea how all there vote, same with the workmans club

Our labour council is raising council tax by the maximum percentage allowed (no surprises there) which will be crippling for both small businesses and households too. Lets not forget that the less people have left after paying for the essentials the less they will spend in shops, cafes etc. so it can be a double whammy .