Corbyns Torque

When we talked about Momentum ( six months ago, less?)
On GN, some socialist GNers reckoned they knew nothing at all about them, or the Momentum members they knew were nice mild mannered people.They were unwilling to discuss the Momentum leadership and seemed to turn a blind eye to all their doings.

much longer than six months Lemon

Annie, I thought of you as he was talking. an mentioned how disillusioned you were. He said he recognised many in exactly the same boat. He was a Labour councillor for over twenty years and well known locally. He is totally disenfranchised, but very worried as young people, especially students who like to think they are politically active (didn't most of us have political leanings in our youth?) are soaking up the far-left dialogue like (as he said) "beermats". It's an exciting overthrow, as they see it - a battle for supremacy rather than a question of morals. He said these students have all had gap years, Mummy and Daddy come and pick them up from Uni and fund their jollies. Many drive and live middle class lives. They are 'slumming it' as students and think they represent the oppressed. (He did make me laugh.) He said they wouldn't know hardship or what it's like to sweat all week in a laborious job if it hit them in the face. However - they are all signed up Corbynistas. Worrying. He was very entertaining but so angry that Labour has been infiltrated by so many who don't recognise it's core values. They are all being led like sheep by an 'exciting' new movement. Until (as he said) "they go back down to their comfy middle class existence in Surrey."

He was very entertaining but hard work. He was grilling most of us as to where we stood, politically, and so many of us felt we were blobbing along in the centre somewhere, hoping the Government kept its promises. He was 'old Labour' and represented factory workers, miners, hard working people who needed a voice. He is a dying breed but feels he has been pushed aside, and I find that quite sad.

I understand how he feels Day6, I have said several times I feel lost. I have no respect for the far left , here I read defence of Corbyn ,yet on the topic of brexit those MP's who support brexit are vilified , Corbyn is a brexiteer but no criticism from the Corbyn devotees , he was even defended for refusing the tAke part in the tv debates leading up to the referendum.

I remember the thread you mean lemon, I was new on GN then and I just blurted out what I saw and really upset some people! That was a baptism of fire & fury.

Yes, that's a weird one, Annie.

Corbyn has ALWAYS been a Eurosceptic (I admire him for that) but he hasn't got the courage of his convictions now he leads the party. He needs to man up.

He has a foot in both camps and cannot side with Remainers. It's a dilemma for him but I'd like him better if he actually spoke up for Brexit and tried to ensure the UK gets the best deal possible.

The more I think about it, the more I hate the way our parties are always at loggerheads. Corbyn and May together could hammer out a good Brexit for us, especially as he isn't enamoured with the EU, but it ain't going to happen, and poor May is going to be criticised by Momentum (Labour far left and mostly Remainers) for standing up to Brussels and ensuring we leave on good terms.

It's mad, isn't it?

I just really don't know the LP position on Brexit, or whether Momentum are leavers or remainers officially. I do remember Momentum didn't want it discussed as it was a divisive issue. I could only find one quote from Lansman about brexit - he has his 'own opinion'.
It's Schrodinger’s Brexit, they are both leave and remain at the same time and they are not going to open the box.

Ha ha! That made me laugh Primrose - although it shouldn't.

I am familiar with Labour Leave, because many of my friends want out of the EU. They thought they had a champion in Corbyn but the man is hedging his bets. He doesn't know where he belongs!

I'd respect him much more if he fought for the Leave side. It's where his heart is and has been for decades.

I have always asserted that getting out of the EU is fundamentally a left wing cause. The hideous Blair is fighting to keep us in. Says it all.

Google is your friend.

Labour Party policy on Brexit

It hasn't changed.

Thanks WilmaKnickersfit

Essentially, Labour will keep us in and disrespect the democratic will of the people.

Single market, customs union and free movement. That is essentially what we have now but the people of the UK voted against.

Theresa May is respecting that. No deal is better than a bad deal. - Labour won't.

"We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union"

Eh? No, that's not what it says.

The first line says

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

We're leaving the EU, but Labour will scrap current White Paper and replace it with one that proposes to legislate on certain issues like the right for EU citizens to remain in the UK, protect workers' right and environmental standards. The new White Paper will propose that Parliament will be involved throughout the negotiations and outline fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain.

It does not say we will remain part of the Single Market and the Customs Union.

It does say it believes no deal is better than a bad deal. Thank God it does. A bad deal is better than nothing and leaves the door open for further negotiations.

Ah, so they have a cake and eat it position on Brexit.
Retain all the benefits but not be part of .....

???

Enjoy your cakes lemongrove- but then you won't 'have them' - sorry.

And on and on they go, saying why can't we be live Norway or Switzerland- knowing full well that means, unequivocally- the 4 freedoms- larger sums of money than we pay now, having to follow EU rules on all exports, and have NO say whatsoever in decision making.

Primrose I think it's more a case of making the best of a bad job things. We see what we want to see.

So what we have on this thread is a bunch of old lefties who have made enough to make themselves comfortable and in doing so have lost sight of the principles and ideals they once held. But they have the gall to castigate young people who have ideals saying these students have all had gap years, Mummy and Daddy come and pick them up from Uni and fund their jollies. Many drive and live middle class lives.
May I remind them that the Labour party was founded by middle class people such as Keir Hardy and Sidney and Beatrice Webb. It isn't necessary to endure hardship to know what is right.

That's very true Wilma.

Digressing from the EU and going back to Momentum. The Soviet Union deemed their supporters from the west, who were often the well educated, comfortably off middle classes as "useful idiots", that loaded comment says a lot about how they held them in contempt. I wonder if some of the slave like devotion of the young who seem to think that an elected Corbyn is tantamount to the second coming, will feel quite the same once he and his cohorts have been in Government, even for a short while, At which time it may well become apparent that some of those young comfortably off devotees were the "useful idiots" in Momentum's campaign to get "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" elected.

A child working in the pits age 7 was middle class? I think not Trisher

trisher your description of the posters on this thread certainly does not describe my situation. You have no idea of my personal circumstances or how much hardship is or is not part of my life.

It's not worth it Trisher. This is their third, or is it forth, "I hate Corbyn" thread and have generally they have been left to get on with it. "We" all know that life with students in the family, as you quoted "them" isn't like that but that won't stop "them".

They love the "them and us" confrontation as they soon run out of anything remotely political that backs up their "I hate Corbyn" position (same old, same old) so attack other GNetters with their interpretation on their lives and their views - even thought those people are not posting on 'their' thread! I am sure most people noticed the usual people on here who have little to say politically but are happy to attack other GNetters who have just left them to their hatefest.

I have no doubt that this will be followed by "We hate Corbyn" thread 4 or 5 or whatever. Just report the personal stuff and leave them to it. GN let them use these threads in this way - they should monitor them.

This old leftie has never been and still isn't in a position of making myself comfortable , some cannot see the difference between socialism and communism, or will not admit they support communism so hid behind the pretence of being a socialist .

You're not comfortable Annie? I thought you worked for your family house rental business. If they''re not paying you the minimum wage you should report them or resign. Someone else might need the job.

Actually GGM2 GNHQ monitor all threads including the usual ‘I hate the Tories’ and ‘I hate Brexit’ threads.
Don’t comment on here if you are not interested in doing so.
Attacking other GNetters? Hatefest? Perhaps you should look at the threads where posters enjoy sticking it to the Conservatives before complaining about this one.