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The Poverty of Brexit

(1001 Posts)
whitewave Fri 09-Feb-18 08:52:13

Poverty of ideas
Poverty of economy

It seems that NI is as useless said to stay in the Single Market according to EU draft.

Expect a major row from the headbangers and denial from Number 10

Round and around we go.

whitewave Wed 14-Feb-18 11:24:20

Reaction to Johnson’s speech

www.edenprivatestaff.com/jobs/resume/category/maternity-nurses/

whitewave Wed 14-Feb-18 11:25:14

Oh! That was wrong. It should have been of a dear baby asleep.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 11:29:51

He is just fighting the same old fight again. He is certainly not talking to me.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 11:33:26

Zzzz ... Someone will summarise I imagine. I have better things to do.

mostlyharmless Wed 14-Feb-18 12:10:27

Well what a load of waffle.
Patronising humour about stag dos in Europe, sex trips to Thailand and sucking vacuum cleaners.
He seemed to lose it totally by halfway through getting flustered, waving his arms around and forgetting the purpose of the speech. Embarrassing!

mostlyharmless Wed 14-Feb-18 12:15:55

The Figures about world trade looked very dodgy. Talking in terms of percentages out of context, he said there was 100% increase in trade between UK and North Korea - how much is this? increase from one to two is 100%!
This contradicts the assertion that we can’t trade outside the EU.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:20:31

I couldn't see it through to the end Mostly but I agree - Embarrassing.

durhamjen Wed 14-Feb-18 12:22:54

The EU is bringing in country by country reporting. That's why Boris wants out, before we are subject to those laws.

Tegan2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:25:47

Something was mentioned in the film last night that I found very interesting. They said that Scotland had voted to remain and that Scotland, because they weren't referendum virgins, as it were [my words, not the film makers] they knew how important it was to do their homework on the implications of what they were voting for. There was another quote [I can't remember who said it] that nationalism was the end game of capitalism]. There was a lot of talk of neo liberalism, but I'm afraid I still don't understand what that means.

durhamjen Wed 14-Feb-18 12:27:40

There's also this, as well.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42666274

They don't want all those companies on the BVI to have to tell all.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:43:36

Tegan, I think you will find a lot of different views on what neoliberalism means. I use it, and when I do I think this definition comes closest to what I mean.

Neoliberalism is regularly used in popular debate around the world to define the last 40 years. It’s used to refer to an economic system in which the “free” market is extended to every part of our public and personal worlds. The transformation of the state from a provider of public welfare to a promoter of markets and competition helps to enable this shift.

Neoliberalism is generally associated with policies like cutting trade tariffs and barriers. Its influence has liberalized the international movement of capital, and limited the power of trade unions. It’s broken up state-owned enterprises, sold off public assets and generally opened up our lives to dominance by market thinking.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:46:02

Femi on BBC News discussing Boris with a not very bright young foggy who is a representative of Project Leave.

durhamjen Wed 14-Feb-18 12:47:36

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2018/01/18/is-realism-the-new-ism/
Stuff in here about neoliberalism, Tegan.

whitewave Wed 14-Feb-18 12:49:57

Where Brexiters are making the biggest mistake is that they are continuing with their bland reassurances and platitudes without explaining exactly how it is going to happen..

The voting public has wised up to that because we understand that there is nothing behind their rhetoric.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:51:55

Project Leave man is still objecting to people saying that leave voters didn't know what they were voting for. I don't think anyone is; he only has one argument thought and he is sticking to it.

I want another vote when we all know what we are voting for. The silly man does not seem to realise now one, not even TM and her war committee know what they want or what we will get. When we do another referendum does not seem unreasonable.

Good to see two younger people being interviewed.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:52:18

now no

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 12:55:55

young fogey of course not young foggy - although it could apply.

Tegan2 Wed 14-Feb-18 13:19:28

From what I can gather [and I must admit to still finding it all confusing] is that Noam Chomsky is against neo liberalism but also against brexit. Which surely means that the EU isn't all that neo liberal confused.

durhamjen Wed 14-Feb-18 13:27:10

I was going to ask if that was intentional, GracesGran.

durhamjen Wed 14-Feb-18 13:32:31

Best description I've heard of Boris -
"He's talking a load of Boris about Brexit again."

Welshwife Wed 14-Feb-18 13:58:57

I see Boris’ speech has gone down well in The EU!! grin

whitewave Wed 14-Feb-18 14:02:09

tegan I thought I’d explain what liberalism and neo-liberalism means, but it began to run into paragraph after paragraph so that was ridiculous.

So in answer to your question, no the EU can definately not be classed as a neo- liberal body. Neither can any member country belonging to the EU, including the UK although there are a number of politicians, like the far right of the Tories - Fox for example see the Singapore model as an ideal, which is as near as you can get to a neo-Liberal economy

whitewave Wed 14-Feb-18 14:09:08

This from our foreign secretary, God help us!!

pbs.twimg.com/media/DV_yL9LW4AAngv8?format=jpg

durhamjen Wed 14-Feb-18 14:10:12

"Neoliberalism sees competition as the defining characteristic of human relations. It redefines citizens as consumers, whose democratic choices are best exercised by buying and selling, a process that rewards merit and punishes inefficiency. It maintains that “the market” delivers benefits that could never be achieved by planning.

Attempts to limit competition are treated as inimical to liberty. Tax and regulation should be minimised, public services should be privatised. The organisation of labour and collective bargaining by trade unions are portrayed as market distortions that impede the formation of a natural hierarchy of winners and losers. Inequality is recast as virtuous: a reward for utility and a generator of wealth, which trickles down to enrich everyone. Efforts to create a more equal society are both counterproductive and morally corrosive. The market ensures that everyone gets what they deserve.

We internalise and reproduce its creeds. The rich persuade themselves that they acquired their wealth through merit, ignoring the advantages – such as education, inheritance and class – that may have helped to secure it. The poor begin to blame themselves for their failures, even when they can do little to change their circumstances.

Never mind structural unemployment: if you don’t have a job it’s because you are unenterprising. Never mind the impossible costs of housing: if your credit card is maxed out, you’re feckless and improvident. Never mind that your children no longer have a school playing field: if they get fat, it’s your fault. In a world governed by competition, those who fall behind become defined and self-defined as losers."

George Monbiot.

GracesGranMK2 Wed 14-Feb-18 15:27:29

I think, as I said, there are several views of what neoliberalism comprises.

I am still happy with the one I quoted and I would say that this country and many others may not be seen as neoliberal but have certainly been moving towards it - often in a very underhand way. It is very much survival of the richest and the devil take the hindmost.

The George Monbiot quote chimes with my understanding Jen.

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