Jeremy Paxman says 'no votes for pensioners'

Please read other people's posts more carefully, gillybob.
BETTER OFF PENSIONERS DO NOT HAVE TO COLLECT THEIR BUS PASSES SO THEREFORE DO NOT HAVE TO RECEIVE TOTALLY FREE TRAVEL.

I have collected mine,but as of yet have not used it. It’s good to have for when it’s necessary

Going back to giving up a seat to a pregnant woman, surely you are either the person that is willing to give up a seat or you are not. I don't see that having to pay a fare would make any difference. It might even make someone less likely to give up a seat because they would feel more entitled to keep it if they had paid for it.
Nobody makes anyone have a bus pass. If someone doesn't agree with them, they don't have to have one.

I wasn't talking to you anyway but in response to your shouting up thread....

BUT THEY STILL BLOODY WELL DO THOUGH, DON''T THEY DURHAMJEN !

I think a lot (note not all) of bus pass holders think they have more right to be on the bus than anyone else to be honest.

I have NEVER said I don't agree with concessionary bus passes but feel strongly that they should be either means tested across the board or else entitle the holder to a reduced fare NOT A FREE FARE.

How on earth can we expect young people and children to pay higher and higher fares to get to work/school/college etc. Just to enable oldies (rich and poor alike) to travel for free.

Going back to giving up a seat to a pregnant woman, surely you are either the person that is willing to give up a seat or you are not

I do think it is difficult when young people are going to have to live with the consequences when we are all dead and gone. I feel the same with people like May and Trump making decisions when they don't have the same investment in the future that someone of 20 has.

I pity a lot of young people today 123flump and I really can't blame some of them for resenting some older people which is really sad.

While "we" seem to feel so bloody entitled to everything from free travel to winter fuel allowances, reduced cinema tickets and crikey know what else we shouldn't forget that there are many young families who are.......

Struggling to get secure jobs with decent wages.
Struggling to get a home of their own.
Struggling to get secure tenancies in decent standard homes.
Struggling to pay heating bills and food bills.
Struggling to pay bus fares to work or school.
Often not able to have a day out never mind a holiday.

Crikey knows it will be like in the future with Brexit looming.

I think we go down a very dangerous road if we start means testing pensioners. Many people over sixty are not as able bodied as they used to be, many have caring duties, many women are not in receipt of the state pension. Yes, some may be doing OK financially but many feel the pinch and can do nothing about acquiring extra income. I live on my occupational pension. I have no other income because I missed out on the state pension when I turned 60. I am not entitled to any benefits at all. I have to account for every penny. A round trip on the buses to the nearest big town would cost me over £7. To do that just ONCE a week would cost me more than I can afford. If I were means tested I'd not qualify. Apparently my income is ' enough for one person to live on'. Many older people need the lifeline a bus pass provides. Getting out and seeing others, being part of life outside their own four walls and having a way to be able to visit family and friends is very important. Many need more hospital and doctors appointments. Many ptefer doing business face to face rather than online. I know how hard it is to live on a limited income and people are more vulnerable as they age. For those who fall just outside any means tested perimeters, life could become very isolated and hard. A few pounds mean nothing to some people but to the majority of those beyond working age, those few pounds have to be spent very carefully. A bus pass is an humane gesture. As for those who complain about pensioners at bus stops, do they not appreciate these were the computers of yesteryear who have done their stint in the rush hour, over decades. They have paid their dues. Many still pay taxes. Why would you want to make life more difficult for an older person?

Commuters not computers! Arrrgh!

I enjoyed your post Day6 . I agree with most of what you say, but would like to add that there are a lot of younger people in similar circumstances with very limited incomes too. In your own admission you live on an occupational pension so will no doubt be better off once you state pension eventually kicks in. Well at least I hope that's what you meant.

Bus fares to town are £7 here too which often makes it impossible for young families to take a trip into town to save money in the bigger shops. No wonder the very expensive corner shops thrive on the estate where my younger DGC go to school. Its a viscous circle for many.

Well said Day6.
It's a pity you are not the PM I'm sure you could sort this country out ?

To be fair though, unless I am wrong you are fairly lucky to have an occupational pension at all Day6 many people do not and will be forced to work (whether they are physically able to or not won't come into it) until they get their state pension at crikey knows what age.... 65? 66? 67? 68?

Not meant as a dig... just saying that those without occupational pensions would be forced to carry on working (before anyone jumps down my throat).

It's a fact that our public transport system is vastly more expensive than the rest of Europe. So far as train season tickets are concerned, here are some examples of the huge differences:

Guardian Rail Fare Data Blog Jan 2017

Monthly cost of season ticket as a percentage of average monthly wages:
UK
Luton to St Pancras 35 miles 14.0%
Liverpool to Manchester 32 miles 10.6%

Germany
B|randenburg to Berlin 43 miles 7.9%

Finland
Karis - Helsinki 47 miles 6.6%

[several, descending in cost, in between]

France
Mante-la-Jolie to Paris 34 miles 2.4%

I couldn't find comparisons between bus fares in the UK and the rest of Europe but, from limited personal experience, I am fairly sure that the fares we paid on buses in Spain were cheaper than in the UK - and I suspect UK bus fares would again be significantly higher.

Trains and buses should, in my view, be reasonably affordable to all the population but for many they are not. We are paying for other countries to make profits out of our public transport system and use those profits to subsidise their own transport networks.

I absolutely agree that many young people face huge financial pressures in this country - including overpriced housing and education. But many older people are also struggling and who, apart from wealthy people who have additional properties/investments, are aware that their incomes are relatively fixed for the rest of their lives.

Recent newspaper articles have also highlighted the OECD report that the UK has the lowest state pension of any developed country - so I guess only a few pensioners are what most people would consider to be "wealthy" (and, with fewer and fewer people being able to afford to buy their own homes, it would seem fewer "new" pensioners will be able to rely on that asset to release more capital).

Additionally, as has been said up thread, the bureacracy involved in means testing is expensive - and many people who are entitled to means tested benefits are either unaware of them, or reluctant/unable to claim them.

Anybody got a response for the woman who rides around all day getting on and off buses as she does not even have enough money to put her heating on during the day?

I remember that; I think she lived in London.

I would put her in a room with Jeremy Paxman so that he can explain to her how she stole the future of her DC and DGC. She could ask him who he thought these young people were that she sees at school pick-up time driving their 4x4s.
I think they would need someone to referee.

Thanks, Jalima. I didn't think I was going mad.
I agree with Eloethan.
Buses and trains are far too expensive here, and we are subsidising continental transport.
If it was renationalised, so that our government owned it rather than the Dutch, French and German, our fares would be more affordable for everyone.

I still think older people that have over a certain income should forfeit their bus passes in favour of younger low income people. Its quite possible that these could be restored in the cases of illness or other severe social situations.

The railways were nationalised here for many years. They were an inefficient mess leaking money that hard pressed taxpayers had to fork out for. Anyway what has any of this got to do with Jeremy Paxman.

How about free bus travel for students during school commute times?
I think all the extra admin that would be needed to means test older people would cost too much.
Couldn't schools work with bus companies to ensure that pupils were able to get to school and back
Is might reduce the ridiculous amount of traffic during school pick up and drop off times.

How would you decide which people should forfeit their pass, Wally? Should the person in the local authority that issues them ask each applicant what their income is? As it is, their age is a matter of record and can be checked, but their income is only available to the tax office. Would you be happy for some wee lassie in the council offices to be able to find out your financial business?

My youngest DGC go to school quite a long way from home ( not by choice mind you as we’ve had several failed appeals ) . No direct bus route at all, 2 buses each way, with a long wait in between buses . There is no way they could do it alone . So VERY expensive .

Oh ....and the icing on the cake threatening letters sent by the education department each time they are late. You couldn’t make it up !

Ridiculous, isn't it, gilly?

Oh that makes me so cross! The education authority. Those paragons of school attendance. The ones who said it was ok for my grandson to miss school as they knew his mum was too ill to take him. Makes me want to spit!

Elegran Yes I would be prepared to have my income checked not necessarily by some wee lassie as you put it. I know some older people are not very well off because of divorce, family circumstances and having had low income jobs but others are quite well off usually because of hard work but not always. What I'm saying is that older people must not impoverish young people as the social consequences can be far reaching.