Labour back tracks and betrays the British public over Brexit.

I still want to hear the Brexiteers condemn the rebel Tory MPs rather than the Labour MPs

But I’m not holding my breath obvs

There is a huge majority in Parliament if all colours for a soft Brexit. The point is that we can have a Good Friday Agreement or we can have a hard Brexit day6 but we can’t have both.

Something has to happen ww......whether it will be what I am happy about is another matter, but it’s too early to say.

A hard brexiter is Hoey. Willing to forgo all for the sake of a warped ideology

You forget that a majority of the British people agree with Kate Hoey. Those wanting OUT of the EU won.

How very imperious of you to suggest that only the Leave ideology is warped.

It obviously hasn't occured to your arrogant self that the majority of people in the UK believe that EU ideology is not only warped but dictatorial and undemocratic. And we pay billions for the privilege of adhering to it.

THAT is the other side of your argument but your EU blinkers prevent you from seeing it.

No day6 I didn’t say that I said Kate Hoey has a warped ideology as do all hard Brexiters.

I cannot get into a personal argument Day6 it is pointless, and gets us absolutely nowhere.

I would argue that you are entirely wrong in arguing that all leave voters want a Kate Hoey style Brexit. There is no evidence for that whatsoever, indeed I would argue that the majority of the voter both remain and leave as does parliament want a soft Brexit. One that secures their jobs and future.

When has there ever been a mandate for a hard Brexit? I don't remember the public even being asked whether they wanted a hard or soft Brexit.

Some Brexiteers actually campaigned for a soft Brexit - I remember Norway's model being touted by several during the campaign but now they have back-tracked to a hard Brexit in a bait and switch

So is it not also betraying the public?

Corbyn is speaking tomorrow on Brexit, so it could all change again.

Although I do think he was the 'warm-up act' for the speech tomorrow. Starmer was using very precise language, as I'd expect from a lawyer. Nothing detailed, everything to be negotiated, just paving the way for JC.

There may be a huge majority in parliament for a soft Brexit, but to me this looks like Corbyn trying to force a vote of no confidence in May, using Brexit as the catalyst. I cannot see any Tory voting with him for that - even if they agree with the LP position on Brexit. Anna Soubry, for example, has a majority of 389. She will not vote for anything that could force an election.

Will be very interesting to see how this plays out though.

"I still want to hear the Brexiteers condemn the rebel Tory MPs rather than the Labour MPs "

You've got it. I strongly suspect Tory MP Anna Soubry will lose her seat at the next election for being a thorn in the government's side in delivering the Brexit mandate and trying to thwart democracy and the will of the people.

She more than others has attempted to split the party. What she has achieved is high lighting her contempt for her party line and for democracy. She may be principled but she needs to remember she serves the people.

If a list of all MPs from all parties who attempted to prevent Brexit happening was issued at the next general election, many MPs would lose their seats. The Labour heartlands (apart from London) voted OUT. The Labour Metropolitan elite couldn't swing the vote.

They voted against Labour once and the world didn't collapse. It could happen again now that Labour appears to be sticking its middle finger up to working class voters and anyone who wants us to be free of Brussels control.

Leaving the EU was always something Corbyn wanted. He didn't campaign for Remain during the referendum, did her? He has always been a Eurosceptic. He is playing with fire now in changing his tune and alienating millions in the UK.

OR so many Leave voters have become disillusioned with the (lack of) progress in negotiating any meaningful deal that they are rather less enthusiastic about brexit than the diehards on GN.
"Negotiations are under way" "We must wait and see" "Working parties are studying these questions" "It's too early to say."

Nothing concrete or solid at all. No real progress about immigrants' rights either present, transitional or future.
No reassurance re NI. Nothing to help SMEs with forward planning. That's without even looking at economic projections.

Yet we still have posts on GN telling us to be patient, to wait and see, to trust that all will be well.
Some are still quite happily sticking their heads in the sand.
What has been said or done to show us that any real progress has been achieved?
Months of useless hot air and, with just over a year to go, a hell of a lot still to be done.

Hard or soft Brexit, Customs Union or single market, were not mentioned on the voting paper(or the accompanying leaflets). Nobody knows what form of Brexit the 51% wanted.

OR so many Leave voters have become disillusioned with the (lack of) progress in negotiating any meaningful deal that they are rather less enthusiastic about brexit than the diehards on GN.

That's another Remain tactic isn't it?
I know of not one Leave voter who imagined getting out of the EU would be an easy process.
I know of not one Leave voter who (because of delays as you suggest) has changed their minds about being free of costly and prohibitive EU control.

For many, the nuts and bolts of prolonged negotiations has become a way of life.

Gransnet Remainers however pounce on every single bit of tittle tattle coming out of negotiations on an almost HOURLY basis, such is their desire to keep PROJECT FEAR alive. They choose the sources which back their beliefs of course. IE: 'We are all doomed.' (I suggest they'd love that outcome so they could crow 'I told you so')

The obsessive interest of Remainers isn't reflected in Leavers who take a much broader, more long term view.

Remainers pouncing on the minutiae hour by hour, obsessively, have an agenda. Project Fear.

Leavers merely want to be free of expensive and limiting EU control and to move forward. Roll on 2019.

It has to be the sort of Leave that doesn’t hedge us around with so many EU restrictions that we can’t fight our way out

What restrictions are those lemon?

If we stay in (not that we are) it will cost us money. By us I mean myself and OH.
We will no longer be able to use an Aframe to tow a car.
Everyone with one of these will have to have a trailer and that will have to have an MOT. That goes for caravans as well, you will have to get it MOT'd.

Day6 as far as I'm concerned it's not about the hackneyed old Project Fear soundbite/cliche which you trot out in virtually every post.
It's about b****y angry that the the brexit ostriches are jeopardising the future of my grandchildren.

Day6 knows of no-one who voted leave and subsequently changed their opinion.

I do.

The only person I know who voted No, virtually on a single ( DEFRA) issue, has changed her mind as nothing has been achieved that alleviates her concerns.
Stop trotting out the tired old Project Fear cliche and acknowledge that the overwhelming feelings of remainers are frustration at the way the futures of DGCs are being jeopardised and anger that the ostriches are still trying to convince us (and themselves) that all we need is patience.

If we stay in (not that we are) it will cost us money. By us I mean myself and OH.
We will no longer be able to use an Aframe to tow a car

Is that why you voted Leave, petra?
I suppose that I should be glad that after 18 months a Brexiter is actually able to give us a benefit (albeit a rather personal one) of leaving!

On the other hand, I'm seeing thread after thread on twitter from small business owners who trade primarily within the EU and who are just about certain that they will become uncompetitive, lose custom, have to cease trading and make their workers redundant. To which the Leavers' response is very much along the lines of 'Hard Luck'

If we don't Leave I'll offer you that response, petra. It seems only fair....

Sorry first post didn't go but I didn't change my opinion in the interim.

The guy I know who voted Leave for a laugh has been kicking himself ever since...

I didn't think 'not leaving' was on the table. I thought we would have to apply to rejoin, which would be fast-tracked, I'm sure. Not sure the UK would be happy to accept the euro though.

Nope, haven’t come across anyone who regrets voting to Leave either.
All I am seeing on this thread is more bitterness that the vote didn’t go the other way.
There is no evidence that anybody's grandchildren are being ‘jeopardised’ anyone would think we were facing a nuclear Winter instead of leaving the EU.

"*I know of not one Leave voter who imagined getting out of the EU would be an easy process*"
- our esteemed Brexit secretary said in the run up to the referendum that the "negotiations would be the easiest in history"., and would "take an afternoon". ( this is documented and he wasn't joking)

Some leave voters believed Daniel Hannan when he said "no-one is talking about leaving the single market", some leave voters believed the lie of the bus, some wanted to punish the Tories because they were pretty hard done by, and some (especially all those who googled "what is the EU?" the day after the vote) hadn't got the first clue.

Some leave voters want hard brexit, some want various varieties of soft or softish brexit, some have long since lost interest in the whole sorry charade.

By far the biggest single coherent group of voters were those who voted Remain. If any group is being betrayed by the mealy-mouthed stance of the Labour Party it is the Remainers.

Isn't it amazing that in all these EU threads the Brexiteers resort to mudslinging and personal insults.

Maybe they could instead answer my oft-posed question 'what will the UK post-Brexit look like?'

www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2018/02/23/220040831-b587bfe9-edda-479b-807f-e99b97d8e363.jpg

Kate Hoey condemned by her own constituents for her hard Brexit stance.