Russian spy attempted murder - what should the UK do?

Not to mention Eurovision! ( it’s always better not to mention it.)

Quote[Jalima1108, snip.....There will always be 'conspiracy theories' by those who dislike their governments.....snip]End Quote

Jalima, there will always be conspiracy theorists in regard to any large disaster, attack or large failing event. By example, George Bush organized the attack on the Twin Towers, the gunman on the Knoll in the assignation of President Kennedy, the death of Robin Cook just to name a few. Some people are not content unless there is a good conspiracy somewhere in their lives.

Others I believe would rather live in a dictatorship where no free independent news would be available to them, and even posts on forums such as this would be unavailable or heavily censored.

Yes, we definitely live under one of the worst oppressive government systems in the world according to some. However, to those of us who step back and consider things positively, the British system of government is not at all bad, though not perfect, certainly far better than most in the world.

Anyway, flying out to warmer climes in the next few hours, will join the thread on return, if we have not all been "nuked" out of existence which has been brought on by some conspiracy. (LOL)

The Russian propaganda tv station RT invited Nigel Farage to air his poisonous views on the EU numerous times before the referendum and even offered him his own show.

The Remain side was supported by every UK political party except UKIP, the leaders of all of our allies in Europe, President Obama, and the leaders of Canada, Australia, India, New Zealand, China and many other worls lezders.

The only foreign politicians who supported the Leave campaign were Donald Trump, Marine le Pen and Vlafimir Putin. Who would want to be in their company?

The best question to ask is “what does Corbyn get out of not agreeing with the government and just about every other MP in Parliament” ?

That is a very strange question. Surely the job of the countries opposition is to hold government to account? He agree that her statement but then asked if certain paths were being followed which would make sure the government was doing what they are supposed to do. That really doesn't seem so outlandish; it's the oppositions job.

If you are going to ask that question surely we should be also be asking what the government is getting out of the way they are dealing with this? Or could it be that they are both acting as they should.

Yes, we definitely live under one of the worst oppressive government systems in the world according to some

I know you still haven't answered my first question Grandad but I will add another. Who, on this forum, has come near to suggesting anything like that?

Anyone else hear Rachel Johnson say that Corbyn was right to say we should wait for proof?
I bet Boris has told her off for that already.

I think if people could stand back and give the current situation more thought than first seems to be the case, it seems to be true that the government almost certainly rushed too soon into the decision as to who was to blame, without given the situation due process or much thought as has been the case in similar situations in the past.

That is all that Corbyn has been calling for, and a lot of hot air has been generated in the rush to heap condemnation on Corbyn’s head. In my view the request that the government show circumspection in its investigation of the circumstances is both prudent and would show a level of intelligence. I know both a big ask of this current government, but given the serious and disastrous potential of escalation , in my view it is the least that this government should have done.

Do not take from this post that I doubt that there is Russian involvement, I have difficulty attributing motive to any other agent, but never-the-less, I think the argument for prudence and caution is correct.

Quite agree whitewave.

In my view the request that the government show circumspection in its investigation of the circumstances is both prudent and would show a level of intelligence. I know both a big ask of this current government, but given the serious and disastrous potential of escalation , in my view it is the least that this government should have done.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-43425911/sir-keir-starmer-all-of-us-should-condemn-russia

I agree that the rather hysterical reaction in some of the msm is not helpful and note that Sir Keir Starmer agrees with Jeremy Corbyn that the authorities need space to do their job properly. but he agreed with the PM (as do so many others) unequivocally.

I do not think that Jeremy Corbyn has anywhere near the level of intelligence of Keir Starmer. That is just my opinion, others may disagree.

I bet Boris has told her off for that already.
Siblings eh!!
I doubt he has 'told her off' though, as I understand that they do listen to each other with respect even if they disagree.

I don’t see there has been any ‘rushing’ at all, far from it.
I understand that some will wish to side with Corbyn due to political allegiances, but May only informed The House of Russian involvement when the intelligence led to it.
Since Parliament was waiting for her statement and all other leaders agreed, even Caroline Flint of the Greens,
And Nichola Sturgeon and just about all the back benchers from both sides, Corbyn was out of step.

Intelligence wise, Starmer and Corbyn are in different leagues.

What is interesting are the options open to the UK.

I would hope that there would be a coordinated response by the allies, but I am somewhat sceptical.
In Europe Russian money has supported number of groups and projects. So I suspect there will not be a very strong outcry for further sanctions.
In the US, there are no strong ideas of pushback over issues like Russian interference in elections, so the strong USA we have seen in the past is not present with the current president.

Going after Russian debt is never going to be an option in the UK.

World Cup? Seems a bit pathetic given the seriousness of the charge.

So it seems that apart from sending each other’s diplomats(spies) packing what else can be done?

The UK cannot afford to look weak, particularly with the intention of casting ourselves adrift from Europe, thereby reducing our influence throughout the world.

lemon I am sorry not to answer your points, but I think this is far too important to make it a parochial issue of arguing over individual politician and their attitude to the problem.

I would however expect parliament to show a great deal of strength by speaking as one against the perpetrator, after due diligence. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise.

I see Theresa May deliberately withheld security briefing information about the Salisbury incident from Corbyn.
It’s not clear why. As leader of the Opposition he is entitled to have access and Cameron allowed Miliband full access to Syria crisis intelligence.
Why? Two theories to explain this have emerged, one is to deprive Corbyn of information to make him look uninformed, the other is that the evidence the Government has is flawed.

evolvepolitics.com/theresa-may-denied-jeremy-corbyn-access-to-crucial-intelligence-on-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack/
Also reported in The Times (paywall).
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/corbyn-not-given-access-to-top-secret-information-qmj55f263

So it seems that apart from sending each other’s diplomats(spies) packing what else can be done?
I think that sends a strong message.

And other countries stating their support has sent a message to Putin too.

I am not sure what other overt course of action would be appropriate, if any now, apart from increasing intelligence and our security.

A third theory could be that she simply does not trust him.

She would not be alone in this.

He was not offered the same level of briefing that Mr Cameron gave to Mr Miliband and Tim Livesey, his chief of staff, before a parliamentary vote on military action in Syria, apparently.
A fourth theory could be that his chief-of-staff, Karie Murphy, was the real issue.

An alternative way of looking at it is that Cameron did something that was out of the ordinary. I don't think there's a precedent of sharing all security briefings with the opposition.

whitewave I didn’t ask you to answer my points, so that’s ok.
You obviously didn’t watch what went on in Westminster all last week ( your comment ‘speaking as one’) MP’s saying ‘shame’ at Corbyn and back benchers from all sides making the point that they were with the PM.
This was on Monday and again on Wednesday.Corbyn was very much on his own, and quite rightly.

Not sure that more can be done, but expelling the 23 and looking more closely at Putin allies here is a good start.
He won’t like all the adverse comments and the spotlight upon him, he has got so used to getting away with murder.

Literally

jallima yes, but no more than one might expect.
But given Putins objective, of looking strong and ruthless, he is undoubtedly testing us - look at Putins sneering. Russia will judge us by our actions not our words, particularly words that seem to have come straight out of the playground. We could have stated that we consider it an armed attack, which would have called on our allies through NATO, but we didn’t. We are looking weak at present and Putin is undoubtedly exploiting this.

So what is really needed is to take on the Russian money, but I severely doubt this will happen. We have historically never been willing to investigate the money and it’s origins.
I am also not convinced that it would worry Putin too much anyway.
Our politicians have never been particularly careful about their monied friends, many of whom are also friendly with Putin. More care is in my opinion is needed. Particularly in the “let’s not ask too many questions” funding of our political parties.

One of the main objectives of Putin imo in this whole sorry episode is to do the very thing you suggest he doesn’t want lemon which is bring attention onto himself.

What you are forgetting is that what matters to the Russian is strength and particularly strength against the West whom they see as continually undermining Russia as well as harbouring their “traitors”. Traitors whom Putin has sworn will always be killed.

All that has happened this past week will bring nothing but huge approval from the Russian population - he’ll get 100% in the upcoming vote?.
That is what matters to Putin.

So you think dialogue with Russia is pointless, because we will only be judged by our actions, and those actions should be escalated because we look weak?
Is that a fair summary?

primrose that is not what I said is it?

I said that Russia and Putin will judge us by our ability to carry out action. They see us as weakened since the brexit decision and Russia has historically always judged actions rather then dialogue.

But of course, common sense will always realise that dialogue is needed in the end. Many would hope that it would also be at the beginning.