Corbyn's Magnetism

Chewbacca, you have hit on much of what Stephen Daisley wrote in the Spectator. Corbyn supporters seem to be the only ones that cannot admit that anti-Semitism "courses through the party's bloodstream."

Part of his article here.

"Corbyn has sought to pre-empt tonight’s protest with a disingenuous statement about ‘pockets within the Labour Party’ where anti-Semitism occurs. His words are hollow, issued under duress, and oozing insincerity. They will have little impact beyond prompting some hastily reversed ferrets among his apologists in the soft-left commentariat whose hot takes on anti-Semitism have been of the ‘LOL, no one cares, look at the polls’ variety.

His comments are also untrue. Labour has been exposed to ever-increasing doses of anti-Semitism and the virus now courses through the party’s bloodstream. It would be more accurate to say that there are still pockets within the Labour Party where anti-Semitism does not occur.

If Corbyn had had a sincere change of heart, he would give a speech apologising for three decades of making common cause with anti-Semites. He would renounce his ugly beliefs and sinister associations and acknowledge the profound pain he has caused British Jews.

We should not be optimistic. Why, after three decades in politics, would Corbyn finally see the light? To do so would involve renouncing much of what he has believed and advocated most of his adult life.

Corbyn has been happy to ditch principles left and right since becoming leader but this would be something different. It would be asking him to stop being the man he is, the man who so dismally appealed to Labour members, and become a wholly different person. In effect, Corbyn is being expected to deCorbynise the Labour Party.

Corbyn is a creature of Labour anti-Semitism, not the cause of it, though undoubtedly his election to the top job has attracted Jew-haters to Labour and emboldened those already present."

As for Corbyn's pathetic 'apology' it's come far later than it ought to and came because of political pressure rather than true conscience.

Good article, and very true.??

Thanks for the welcome Primrose65 and Whitewave it’s a very interesting thread, very hard for labour supporters to believe or even examine whether, discrimination is happening in their party. Unfortunately without discussion and open investigation people get away with stuff and then, awful stuff can get accepted as the norm. JC was a back bench rebel for years and proud to be so, as leader any rebels get sacked or threatened with deselection, interesting times.

"The US artist who painted the mural, Kalen Ockerman, has identified the men it depicts as, from left to right, “Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan, Aleister Crowley, Carnegie & Warburg“.

Of the six men, only the first and last in the list were Jewish. One, Aleister Crowley, was noted for his antisemitic views.

But the programme assumed the six men were Jewish – because it said they have ‘hook-noses’ and were bankers – and seemingly did not bother to check.

The idea that Jewish people look alike and that therefore you can identify a Jewish person by his or her appearance is a well-known antisemitic trope – as is the stereotype of ‘Jewish financiers’.

We asked the BBC about its assumption. The ‘response’ – though substantively non-responsive

Jo Coburn was offering the interviewee, Jenny Mason, the chance to comment on a mural which has been widely condemned as anti-semitic. Her reference to the appearance of the men in the picture was based on its crude use of anti-semitic stereotypes.

We challenged the BBC’s failure provide a substantive answer about its assumptions, but the Corporation’s only further answer was:

That’s our final response.

Ms Coburn told Jenny Mason that a ‘split second’ would be enough to identify the themes and problems of the mural."

I didn't watch Daily Politics today as I was out, but this is interesting about Jo Coburn and her assumptions about the mural.

"If you look at that picture even for a split-second it is a picture of six men with hook-noses, stereotypical Jewish men playing a board of bankers' monopoly on the broken backs...of workers. Which bit of that is not antisemitic?"

This is what Jo Coburn said.

durhamjen
Even more pointless, then. Why are you on the thread?

You're getting above yourself again durham.
I am on this thread because I have every right to be; what with it being an open forum and all.
I am not answerable to you.
I will post as, and when, I see fit.
I will post my opinions, whether that irks or upsets you or not.
I will answer only the questions that I wish to answer.
I will not open any of the dodgy links that you post in order to substantiate your feeble defence of the indefensible.

That ok with you?

And yet no one has yet posted the name sof anyone in the Labour party who is anti-semitic. There are people who have been suspended, people who have been banned, but no-one who is currently a member. If it is so rife why have these people been suspended?
As for the facebook group Palestine Live
The Labour MPs Clive Lewis and Chris Williamson were members of the group, as were two former Liberal Democrat politicians, Baroness Jenny Tonge and the former MP David Ward.
No one has mentioned the others so why is Corbyn singled out?

You have to give credit to Labour moderates including Yvette Cooper, Harriet Harman, Chuka Umunna, Ian Austin, Stephen Doughty, Liz Kendal and John Woodcock who did find time to join the Jewish community for the rally against anti-Semitism within the Labour Party.

This ought to be the time they denounce not only their Leader but the hold hard left Momentum now has on the party. I don't suppose they will.

Brilliantly put here. Perspective.

thegreatcritique.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/oh-all-right-lets-talk-about-that-mural-then/

Written by a Jew who knows antisemitism when he sees it.
Hope he doesn't mind being mentioned on Gransnet again!

How do you explain Lansman being an orthodox Jew, Day6?
All these antisemites creeping into the labour party with Lansman in charge?

I would imagine that, as leader of the Labour party, Corbyn isn't so much being "singled out", as being held accountable for his party members behaviour and conduct whilst in office trisher. He finally seems to be getting an idea of the enormity of the problem and has offered an apology ahead of the rally, but he's let this problem slide for too long. He should have tackled it months ago.

What do you say about the mural that started all this up again not being antisemitic?
Or is it head in the sand time again?

What's your opinion on antisemitism in the Labour party durham? Do you think that there are inherent problems, or are you an antisemitism denier?

I can see only 1 head in the sand.........

I watched the programme Jen and it was extremely aggressive. Jenny Mason, who was the interviewee is also Jewish, in the Labour Party and was quite happy (well happy probably isn't true when Ms Coburn is the interviewer) to defend Corbyn and point out that this cannot be about one man.

The picture Ms Coburn showed when she said it could be easily identified as anti-Semitic was just the central part of the mural - the men and the table held up by the workers. Yes, if you project this small part of the whole on to a very large screen in the studio you might ask who the men were supposed to depict however we have no doubt all see then pictures of the mural and on FB they would be very small. There was obviously an agenda. So much so that I emailed the programme to complain. I doubt if I was the only one.

It seems the due diligence we should expect from the BBC simply wasn't undertaken. If only two of the men depicted are meant to be Jewish who is being anti-Semitic and, you have to ask, what is their intention by using anti-Semitism in this way?

The labour party has a system to deal with antisemitism, so there's no denial there. I agree with trisher. Those found to be antisemitic have been suspended and banned.
The problem is that it takes them too long to investigate.
But the mural is not antisemitic, is it?

At lunchtime today I listened to an interview on R4 with a representative of Labour, defending Jeremy Corbyn. I have rarely heard a nastier more weasly, nor so antisemitic interview on mainstream media. Among other things, she described the Board of Deputies as all being Conservatives, and many holding political views far darker than that, suggesting that these accusations were trumped up by the Board of Deputies to undermine Labour. On a matter of principle I listened to as much as I could until, with my gorge rising, I had to turn the last bit off.

I will never ever ever again even consider voting Labour, let alone actually vote for the party. Today that party spokesmen, took their party into the sewers with the sewage.

"The rich men portrayed in the mural sitting around the Monopoly gameboard include the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, the Warburgs and the Morgans. The Rothschilds and the Warburgs are indeed Jews. But the others are not. They are portrayed in exactly the same light as the Warburgs and the Rothschilds, but this is not because of their ethnicity, but because they are all banking magnates. Their portrayal is not anti-Semitic, it is anti-plutocratic.

The pyramid in the background is often assumed to embody the legendary ‘Illuminati’, which is often thought to be an undercover world-controlling movement dominated by Jews. But again, this is not correct. The pyramid actually symbolises Freemasonry, and the widely-held (and possibly correct) suspicion that Freemasons often give each other un-earned ‘foot-ups’ up the hierarchy.

Freemasonry is not a Jewish movement.

How do I know that all of this applies to the mural? The explanation for that is shockingly simple; unlike the majority of pompous outraged attack dogs snapping at Corbyn’s heels, I bothered to read up on the history of the mural before passing judgement on it. One of the details I checked was what the artist had to say about it. Sure enough, Ockerman responded to the accusations of anti-Semitism back in 2012, and explained all of the above."

DJ, Jon Lansman, Momentum's leader is also concerned with the problem. Three kinds of anti-Semitism in Labour ranks, Momentum leader admits

From the Telegraph. Dec 2017.

The Labour Party has three separate “categories” of anti-Semitism but has “a lot of denial” that the problem exists, the founder of the Corbynite group Momentum has admitted.

Jon Lansman, who is himself Jewish, said Labour must do more to “stamp out” anti-Semitism in the party, though he said there is no “one size fits all” solution to the problem.

Mr Lansman, 60, has successfully shifted the Labour Party to the far Left by marshalling support for far-Left candidates in the general election, as well as backing Mr Corbyn’s leadership.

The party has been dogged by growing accusations of anti-Semitism under Mr Corbyn, who has in the past described the anti-Israeli militant groups Hamas and Hezbollah as 'friends'.

So there you are, from the horse's mouth.

Murals are murals, people look at them when they walk past and reach quick conclusions about what it is about on the basis of the symbolism they see and artists, especially muralists know this.

Nobody, at the time could do all the detailed research you did, dj even if they could do so now (is the artists name and title of the painting on the mural to enable this?). The purpose of a mural is to make an immediate point through the art, not expect the passer by to immediately start doing research

I am sorry dj your post above is getting perilously close to doing what the spokesperson on the radio was doing at lunch time

And still DJ thinks it's only about the offensive mural.

no, it is not just about the mural -

it is a smoke screen against accusation that a crime has been committed by the leave campaign, possibly aided and abetted by the Conservative Party- and the mess they are making of negotiations. Klar?

And yet Monica, Jeremy Corbyn is being pilloried for not coming to the wrong conclusion from a small picture on FB and you are now threatening "never to vote for the Labour Party".

This has been very heated. It appears Jeremy Corbyn has done nothing wrong. It appears those who see him as someone to be taken out of our democratic system, the Labour right, those who think a Corbyn might take a deeper look at the Palestinian/Israeli issue, and those on the right in general including much of our mainstream media, may have completely miscalculated, but you are still blaming Corbyn. Interesting isn't it.

As for the "Jewish community Rally" there are approx 280,000 Jews in Britain 66%of them live in Greater London, so approx 150,000. Most accounts put the rally at 500 although Jewish publications have said 1,200, but still a small percentage of the Jewish community. Perhaps many of whom are members of the same local Tory party as the leaders of the two organisations making the accusations about Labour.
From the Jewish Socialist Group The Jewish Socialists' Group expresses its serious concern at the rise of antisemitism, especially under extreme right wing governments in central and Eastern Europe, in America under Donald Trump’s Presidency and here in Britain under Theresa May’s premiership. The recent extensive survey by the highly respected Jewish Policy Research confirmed that the main repository of antisemitic views in Britain is among supporters of the Conservative Party and UKIP
But hey let's just slag off the Labour Party!.

No it isn't, but this wouldn't be on here if it wasn't for someone digging up something to attack Corbyn with.
Luciana Berger, as a matter of fact.

I haven't done any detailed research, just read my emails.
The mural isn't there, Monica, so nobody can walk past it. It hasn't been there for over six years.
This has been dug up to attack Corbyn with. Why?

"Now as I say, this whole business has been a nonsense. Even if there were genuine anti-Semitic content in the mural, so what? It was years ago, and it was very clear that Corbyn’s comment was not meant as a defence of anti-Semitism. Now, how is a passing comment that Corbyn made six years ago on a bit of bizarre artwork suddenly so important that it takes priority over the Local Elections, over Conservative laundering of Russian finance, over Tory and pro-Brexit groups getting potentially-illegal help from Cambridge Analytica, the fantastic fraudulence of Jeremy Hunt’s untrue ‘pay-rise’ for NHS workers, the suspicious-looking miracle of only three people getting exposed to a lethal nerve agent in Salisbury and all of them so slightly that somehow none of them are dead almost a month later, the never-ending Brexit chaos, rampant child poverty… ? Good grief, I reckon even the ball-tampering scandal by the Australian Test Cricket team should rate as more of a priority than this! I mean, at least that happened this week! (Darren Lehmann and Steve Smith should be sacked, for what my view on that is worth, by the way.)

Of course, the answer to my question lies with the alternative topics I have listed. A lot of the media would like to talk about ‘anti-Semitism-in-Labour’ right now precisely because it blots out all these other matters. And sadly, even usually fairly sensible broadcasters and journalists, including O’Brien and Fogarty, have allowed themselves to get caught up in the tidal wave of rage.

No, Corbyn is not ‘comfortable in the company of anti-Semites’. No, the majority of the Labour left are not anti-Semites, not even a large minority of the Labour left are anti-Semites. "