78 year old arrested for murder

If he hadn't been in someone else's house, with the clear intention of robbing them, he'd be alive today!
If I find anyone burgling my house, they'll have to run faster than I can unlock and load my shotgun!
For all the 'bleeding heart liberals' amongst us, my gun is legally held, and only used for shooting clays, but no-one has the right to break into my home and terrorise my family, if they do, they will get what they deserve!
Okay, I've put my tin hat on, you can throw whatever you want!

Would we have felt different if the man involved in this incident had been aged 30 rather than 78?

Someone has died in suspicious circumstances. The police have to investigate thoroughly before they can decide what to do. In the meanwhile they have arrested the person who committed the act that caused the death to question him and have subsequently given him bail, not a common occurrence in murder cases - and that suggests the police have taken the circumstances of the case into consideration. They have followed all the proper procedures. It happens to many people every day for all kinds of crimes. They are later cleared of the offence they have been charged with and released without charge, which is what i expect will happen in this case.

The difference between murder and manslaughter is not that you plan the murder in advance but that you go into a situation where you should be reasonably aware that your actions or use of an instrument could cause death.
Manslaughter means that you act in a reckless or dangerous way that causes death. I think the difference probably goes like this: going out somewhere carrying n iron bar, which you intend to use as a weapon and hitting someone who dies as a result, is murder. Getting involved in a fight and picking up an iron bar that happens to be lying around and hitting someone in the heat of the moment, who then dies is likely to be manslaughter

From hildajenni's link:

You don’t have to wait to be attacked before defending yourself in your home.

However, you could be prosecuted if, for example, you:

carry on attacking the intruder even if you’re no longer in danger
pre-plan a trap for someone - rather than involve the police

We don't know the exact circumstances but it doesn't sound as if the householder did anything that could result in a prosecution.

If a householder was aged 30, with a disabled wife helpless upstairs at the mercy of another intruder and he was being attacked by the other intruder with a screwdriver then I would feel no different.

Although perhaps a 30 year old could have overcome a young intruder, found some handy rope (we all keep some in the kitchen, don't we, in case of this type of emergency), tied him up, rushed upstairs and tackled the other intruder and tied him up too before calling the police and subsequently being arrested for causing bodily harm or for impeding a burglar in the course of his work.

Jalima All I know is that someone broke into our home my DH would certainly defend both me and our property with vigour!! We are, incidentally 78 and 75 years old. If these two people hadn't broken in in the first place, (it is after all a crime!) this incident would never have happened. They're completely responsible for their own misfortune and maybe others will learn by it.

You're allowed to use 'reasonable force' when someone is in your home, as far as I know. ((Although I dont know much)
How you're supposed to decide in advance what will be 'reasonable' I also don't know.

It's a real odd area isn't it, "reasonable force"... I keep wondering if this had happened in the USA and the homeowner had shot and killed the intruder, would that have been accepted as self defence?
I'm not objecting to the process of course, as I said early on, I'm relieved to live in a country where the police follow the legal procedures.

Yes, it means the onus is on you to decide what the persons intentions are.

Do we act out of instinct, fear, anger or emotion when faced with intruders in our home?
I think I would.

The actual laws surrounding my immediate action would not be at the forefront of my mind.
Survival would be.

I suppose its fair to say that if you managed to tie up the intruder, it wouldn't then justify beating them to death with a saucepan.

Now MissA, let's not bring humour into our lives

Oops! Sorry!
I almost forgot myself there.
Ahem!

I'm not ruining my beautiful saucepans.

One less burgling low-life IMO.

Sorry if that offends anyone but I’d defend me and mine too in this situation.

I hope this poor man's character isn't pulled apart in the way Tony Martin's was. The media and the intruder's defence will leave no stone unturned if there's the slightest suspicion that he may be a bit 'odd.'

There was a lot of support for TM on the fens. Living in fear is enough to unhinge anyone.

thesecretbarrister.com/2018/04/05/bashing-burglars-and-the-law-of-self-defence/

If you are afraid for your life then you are allowed to use force - this was the case before the change in the law after the farmer chap who shot a burglar. But you do need to tell the police straight away that you were afraid for your life - which I am sure this man was - self defence. Someone coming at you with a screwdriver would make you very afraid particularly when the assailant is half your age.

also Im sure the man is very distraught that he has killed someone .To think he probably went to bed as normal and ended up killing someone .he must be in a state of shock.

I agree that it is good that the householder has been bailed, and also that the police have to carry out their enquiries fully. According to the report in the Guardian the intruder was dragged outside by his colleague and then "left for dead" while the colleague escaped. At what point did he die, and did it make a difference that he was moved?

It would be nice if the news reports would stop calling the householder a pensioner all the time! Is it because he has a long name which is too much for them, I wonder?

bikergran absolutely. From what I have read he is a decent, kind man, and was put in a frightening situation.

From most reports the ‘weapon’ was one that was brought into the house as the thief’s weapon of choice it was NOT the homeowner picking up a weapon There was a scuffle and the burglar was stabbed by his own weapon I do not see (if that report is correct) how that could be murder or even manslaughter it was his own weapon No one will make me believe a 78 year old man could overcome a 30 + so the most likely explanation is they both fell in the scuffle and the screw diver pierced his heart A terrible story for his family and a terrible end but if he wasn’t doing bad it wouldn’t have happened
Seems his fellow burglar has got away Scott free
I hope the old chap is back with his wife where he was before these thieves got into his home

An awful case, but I think the police would treat an older person, the home owner and victim of a robbery with condsideration, but it obviously had to be fully investigated first.I have no sympathy for the intruder at all, breaking into a home and threatening an old man with a screwdriver while the other burglar got on with ransacking.
If you are going to get involved with violent crimes you reap the consequences.I hope the 78 year old man will be alright.Hard to get over something like that.

Strange interview on BBC news with dead man's cousin laying flowers in the road where he died. She is angry that the pensioner has been released on bail, she said something along the lines of "he, the cousin, shouldn't have died in there and went on to add what a lovely person he was. It appears he was a career criminal who had terrified the wits out of other people during previous burglaries. Yeah lovely

Agreed TerriBull reports say he was thought to be involved in a distraction burglary, again on an elderly person, and was also wanted for another burglary. I wonder whether his family will now try to sue the homeowner for "compensation".

Terribull - we've heard this kind of thing before - 'Lovely boy, good at school, loved football, adored his mum' - then went on to commit dreadful acts.

I'll bet the burglar's accomplice got a shock. Don't suppose they thought for one minute that they'd be confronted and it would end up with one of them losing their life. But they made their choice and this was the consequence. My sympathy and support lies with the householder, not the thieves.