78 year old arrested for murder

Maizied I think it was rather rude of you to accuse other members of being "pathetic* just because they don't have the ability or confidence to post a link!

Am I pathetic because I can't knit, just as an example?

It would seem that the deceased is a known career criminal who has previously spent time in prison.
I can only say how sorry I feel for the poor home owner and his wife. They must be absolutely traumatised. I cannot imagine the horror of lying in your bed and realising that intruders are in your home. You cannot possibly be responsible for what happens in those following moments. That was their home, their little sanctuary, where they should have felt safe.
I do understand that the poor man had to be taken into custody whilst the facts were established but I cannot possibly see how he could be charged

A terrible story. Of course the householder should have support rather than any kind of custodial sentence, but as we all rush to say we would do the same if it happened to us, let’s not forget that in fact official advice is that if we hear intruders in the night the last thing we should do is go downstairs. Instead turn on all the lights, shout out of the windows etc. Intruders exceedlingly unlikely to come upstairs in such circs.
I’m as bad as anyone at remembering theoretical advice in a crisis - can well see that going downstairs might seem the obvious thing to do, but maybe this awful incident is a moment to remember that advice.
Also, to say that the man deserved what happened because he was the aggressor and had a weapon seems rather extreme to me. Am I the only one to be a bit troubled by this talk?

Well, I'm not troubled by it.
I wouldn't wish it on him, and its a shame all around that it happened.
Hazard of his chosen lifestyle, I suppose.

Also, to say that the man deserved what happened because he was the aggressor and had a weapon seems rather extreme to me. Am I the only one to be a bit troubled by this talk?
I don't quite follow the logic here:
a man goes out with the intention of breaking and entering someone else's house and stealing their property. He is armed with a weapon so presumably his intention is to wound or kill anyone who tries to prevent him from doing that.
Somehow he ends up as the one who is stabbed and subsequently dies - the tables are turned.

No, I am not troubled and we do not know whether or not he may have survived had he not been dragged out of the house by his accomplice and left to die outside.

No, I'm not troubled by it either Jalima. As you say, the burglar went armed with a screwdriver and was intent on using it if necessary. He came off worse on this occassion, but it could just as easily have been Mr O-B or his wife who had been injured or killed. The trauma that Mr O-B and his wife must have gone through doesn't bare thinking about. My sympathy lies with them.

I feel so sorry for this 78 year-old man.

Just imagine - being confronted by two young men, in your own home, in the middle of the night. He must have been terrified!

And then, to have one of them threaten him with a screwdriver, whilst the other was upstairs, ransacking his home, and perhaps hurting his wife ...?

He was very brave to defend himself (and his wife). He probably reacted instinctively with the knife, and wouldn't be thinking about actually killing the burglar, just wanting to get rid of him.

MawBroon is right. There's no way this is murder!

And just think how that man must be feeling now. He will be shaken (to say the very least!). Traumatised by the event! He's killed someone, been arrested for murder ... I doubt he will ever get over it. (A twenty year-old would have trouble getting over it!)

I applaud his courage and strength, and hope that it holds him up during this awful time.

As for the burglar - wrong time, wrong place ...

Winterwhite yes I think you are the only one to feel worried by people expressing their relief that this went the way it did no one is saying they are jumping for joy that someone lost their life but if one of them had to surely it was the right one
Have they got the other bloke yet ?
I hadn’t read about a knife Lyndiloo I looked st the latest BBC news before writing this and there’s no mention of a knife being used Where did you see that ?

I hadn’t heard about the burglar’s cousin laying flowers outside the O-B’s house - I hope somebody removed them immediately. I’m troubled by the whole thing Winterwhite but my sympathy lies with the O-Bs one hundred per cent.

I would have thought being killed it was an occupational hazard for someone who thinks its acceptable to break into someone else's home in the middle of the night

What sort of message does it send out if people are afraid to even defend themselves at home, in the night???

My dad, who lived in Catford was in his late 70's when two men were fighting in the street with machetes, dad managed to break that up, and took one of them into his porch for safety...........no police came at all.

Either the police are going to do what we pay them for or we shall have to do it ourselves, what other choices are there?

I am waiting to hear that the police handled this chap with kid gloves and that he was afforded courtesy and consideration. OK they have procedures but what took them so long?

Any intruders here will be subjected to my home cooking !!

I read a newspaper post (can’t remember which one) which states that the dead man’s family is a local gang which specialises in conning and robbing old people. He has been in prison, and was currently on remand for other crimes.

Am with OldMeg on this one ....100% ... having spent my working life with this low life, I know how “funny” it is to so many of them, no remorse, no respect and no care for anyone else but themselves. When they are sent to prison they don’t care, just interested in who else is inside so they can have a good old reunion.

You are allowed to use ‘reasonable force’ in your own defence, but what is ‘reasonable’ depends on the circumstances and is a moveable feast

And those of you who live in Scotland may want to consult salvas.co.uk to see what Scots law has to say on the subject of self-defence and reasonable force.

One notable difference is that if you are defending yourself, you must have first tried to retreat from the threatening situation.

Jalima, I'm smiling bemusedly at your 'handy rope' in the kitchen. Don't think I have such stuff in my home or garden. I'm assuming it's tongue in cheek and again that made me smile which is somewhat of a relief in the midst of the awful topic of this thread. Sad stuff from all angles where nobody has 'won'

One less villain for the police to have to deal with.

Sorry, but nobody 'deserves' to be killed for breaking into a house. Thank goodness we've seen the back of public executions. And who is to say that the screwdriver was wielded by the burglar? If he was a career criminal I would have thought he'd arm himself with something more effective than that. Yes, burglary and violent robbery is a terrible thing and we have the right to defend ourselves 'with reasonable force'. Until all the facts are known I'm not inclined to view the householder as a 'hero' and he should certainly be subjected to the due process of law.

I wonder if he was taken into custody for his own safety if this horrible gang are local and out for revenge.

The police had no option but to arrest him but they did not have to keep him in custody for 2 days. He is now on bail. I hope the police are properly protecting him and his wife because the family are very worrying. They forced an 80 year old woman to sign over her house and he and his father have been jailed twice.
I don't believe in the death penalty but some people's death is not a loss to the world. Stopping crime families like this is so difficult. You have to sympathise with people born into them because they have little chance of seeing the world as honest people see it.

It's terrible and I often wonder why people who commit serious violent crimes are given bail at all, though in this case it seems the sensible thing to do.
Surely we all have the right to defend ourselves, our loved ones and our property?
I've no sympathy whatsoever for the burglar. If you go about committing crimes you deserve whatever comes your way and if that's a stab/shotgun wound then hard cheese.

Aggressive scumbag dead, potential victim alive. Good news story as far as I’m concerned.

My sympathy is with the householder and his wife, not the criminal. That criminal had no right to be breaking into the householders home, instilling fear and being violent. The criminal was where he shouldn't have been. He intended wrongdoing.
of course it had to be investigated, but I sincerely hope that the householders will get all the support they are going to need. Goodness knows what damage has been done to their mental well being as a result of this terrible event.
Those burglars were the wrongdoers in this case not the householder.

He was released on bail yesterday, he has to report back to police station in a months time to which they will decide if there is grounds to charge him. Most are suggesting they will not charge him under the new laws. There has been a crowd funding page set up via Facebook to help him with his legal costs should he need it. Sad that he was even kept in a cell for 24 hrs like most say he deserves a medal not a criminal record.

It seems to becoming a common stance that perpetrators are the ones who 'suffer' and those who try to protect their families [in this case in the middle of the night] are the 'bad' guys.
I'm working to improve safe parking for delivery staff. They are fined if they park in the 'wrong' place but there are very few alternatives available - and this situation is well known in the industry.
It's those who are doing their best under unsatisfactory - or in this older man's frightening - circumstances who often land in the mire it seems.