Unintended consequences of brexit

Sorry to interrupt this conversation, but with America slapping huge tariffs on trade this morning, how can we ever hope to rely on trade with the US after Brexit? Liam Fox, May and Johnson have been trying to discuss trade deals around the world, but now it looks as if it will be even harder to get favourable deals from the US but the knock-on effect will cause trade deals globally to be more difficult.

Massive US tariffs have come into force as condemnation of the Trump administration's move intensifies.
Criticism of the import tax on steel and aluminium from the EU, Canada and Mexico was joined by top Republicans.
Leaders from affected nations reacted furiously, setting out tit-for-tat tariffs on the US, ranging from steel to sleeping bags and ballpoint pens
From BBC this morning.

Maybe the american economy isn't as healthy as they pretend? If they have to be so protectionist.
Unexpected consequences - that there would be many changes in the economies of other countries which would affect our ability to adjust on our own.

Fennel Fri 01-Jun-18 08:40:55
Allygran are you m or f?

What do you think Fennel?

Which are you?

Ally - you write lin a way like a man argues.
And me? Not telling [wink}.

I’m intrigued,how does a man argue or should we say debate , perhaps that the difference woman argue, men debate, (but I don’t think that is true)

Bridgeit - in my experience men tend to be more verbose and aggressive than women in an argument. Try to shout down the opposition . Look at the detail rather than the whole picture and repeat, repeat, try to hammer home.
Because our brains work differently, we tend to see the whole picture, and try to reduce it to simple factual terms.
But others will disagree. And that's a different topic.

How sexist Fennel. Tut!

Geri this is about your post, your comments to me and my response to you, not the rest of the Metropolis. It also seems that you think that everyone that lives outside of London is narrow and parochial...no you don't, your remarks are addressed to me, therefore personal.

Like you, I too am a citizen of the world, but first and foremost a citizen of this country a country that nurtured, educated and looked after me and mine. Your assumptions demonstrate a lot of stereotyping.-

You then say: “ Those who can spell and put together a concise sentence are often thought to be the metropolitan elite, but I’m not". On Gransnet, I would say 99.9 percent of people, as you put it, “can spell and put together a concise sentence” at the very least, they are not all, however, again, as you put it, “thought to be the metropolitan elite,” nor are most thought to be anything other than what they choose to share with each other on here, in a whole range of wonderful discussion, and views on all sorts of topics, which one would expect.

Obviously ones political leanings come through, as one would expect. Most accept other people’s views and have a healthy debate without surrendering their own viewpoint. However in your case and with a less than handful of others, conversations can be going nicely and then when something is disproved of or not agreed with, or an alternate source of so called evidence is produce, there is always a personalized nasty aside, or put down lurking in the wings. When people respond, this small group, including you, twist things around and then you all as a ‘gang’ attack that person.

You say that you come over, or you believe you are thought to be of “the metropolitan elite,” because you can “spell and put together a concise sentence”. Well! All I can say about that is, I hope that the “metropolitan elite” are capable of a lot more than that. Nor I should say do you fit my profile of “metropolitan elite”. Although my view is restricted to your behaviour and views on Gransnet, so nowhere near a full picture of you, or indeed you of me.

My view of your views, are that you support and hold extreme far right views possibly even further right than far. Whilst you incorrectly label me with your assumptions and stereotyping as “patronising and parochial” these views are formed from my views from my responses or postings, it does not tell you what sort of person I am, nor should you stereotype me because of my political stance. As you have.

Just to clarify. This exchange, the words we use, are about you and me they are not meant to generalise or stereotype 8 million others in London or the country outside of London
.
It seems it is OK for you to make assumptions about my world view and stereotype who and what you assume I am, but it is not ok as far as you are concerned for me to do the same about you. Such double standards. I would love to say 'typical' but that would be stereotyping you.

You tell me that I no “nothing of the real life of others”. How you came to this conclusion is a mystery to me. What we do know about each other based on our political stance and the North South divide is very little. You are far left what does that tell me about you.... not what you think it does I imagine. You believe I am of the right what does that tell you about me...not what you think it does I imagine. A Dangerous stereotyping, the sort that leads to further and further division.

The arrogance demonstrated by the assumption that because a person leans to the political right, that they are not as concerned about the society we live in as much as a labelled socialist. Caring for and seeking equality in society is not the exclusive domain of the left/far left. Bruce Adams of the Spectator put it nicely I think: “Conservatism is no creed for the intellectually limited. It requires hard thinking. The socialists have an easier life. First, they have a secular teleology: socialism. Second, assuming that history is on their side, many lefties feel entitled to lapse into a complacent assumption of moral superiority.” This is what I think you and less than a handful of others do, and in doing so, fall into the trap of your view or no view, in attempting to achieve that at all cost, you attack the person.

You should know Geri, that I feel bullied by you and less than a handful of others on here. I feel that I have to stand up to you and if that makes me seem arrogant so be it. At every opportunity you attempt to divert, deliberately misunderstand, misinform and manipulate in support of your views. There is always a sense for me at least that you and less than a handful of others have a far left activist agenda and this colours your view of me, and others that have a different view, especially those of us who can do more than spell and construct a sentence as you put it. Those of us who are thinking and analysing and presenting reasoned alternatives for debate get a particular kicking.

I notice, those who do not share your views are labelled/stereotyped as being "Parochial", not quite as bright as you...not getting "it", confused, now these are not always words you use but other do. I get it don't you worry; I just don't want "it". I will not be bullied, never will. If that comes over to you as arrogance, parochial middle class or any of the other labels you might want to use, from your self appointed superior ideological stance, then that is your choice, but don't expect me not to fight back.

"Gerispringer Thu 31-May-18 20:22:22
Ally, ally ally, Your narrow, parochial and patronising view of the world indicates you know nothing about the real lives of others."

"Fennel Fri 01-Jun-18 15:59:44
Bridgeit - in my experience men tend to be more verbose and aggressive than women in an argument. Try to shout down the opposition . Look at the detail rather than the whole picture and repeat, repeat, try to hammer home.
Because our brains work differently, we tend to see the whole picture, and try to reduce it to simple factual terms."

Fennel, it has never occurred to me to categorise the many papers I have read over the years by gender. What I have noticed is, that the academic style's of critical analysis, analysis, persuasive and descriptive do alter (obviously) the power of the work. But never considered the power of the work being influenced by the writer being male or female.

Maybe Fennel you just don't find my style holds your interest. Sorry about that. You might get into it if you persevere, sometime what I have to say is not too boring.

Was it one of the Bronte sisters who wrote under a male pseudonym, I think so. I will find the work and read it to see if one could guess, not knowing of course at that time, that in fact it was a woman author rather than as stated on the fly cover a male author. Interesting!

Geri, Geri, Geri your Londoncentric views tell me that you have no idea about life outside of London.
This you said about me yesterday before my mirrored reply - is that not personal.?

Because I questioned this assumption that people in London are somehow different from everyone else which includes me, I did feel personally offended.
Also you claim in your post of 16.19 that I hold “extreme far right views and possibly even further right than far” that would make me akin to Britain First/ National Frontand I am VERY personally insulted by that. Please tell me in what way I demonstrate extreme far Right views ANYWHERE.? Sorry to shout but I am very offended by that remark which you casually throw in without one jot of evidence.

"How sexist Fennel. Tut!"
Vive la Difference!

No Fennel you cannot just slip off a sexist remark of that magnitude. You said that "men tend to be more verbose and aggressive than women in an argument. Try to shout down the opposition . Look at the detail rather than the whole picture and repeat, repeat, try to hammer home."
You also said of women:
"Because our brains work differently, we tend to see the whole picture, and try to reduce it to simple factual terms."

A lot of people, men and women will find this offensive.

Tant pis pour eux.

No Geri. Gerispringer Thu 31-May-18 20:22:22
"Ally, ally ally, Your narrow, parochial and patronising view of the world indicates you know nothing about the real lives of others."

I too am offended in the extreme. I won't shout at you it is unacceptable. My view of your views is my view. Your entitled to be offended just as I am about your view of me.

As I said in the earlier post neither of which will be accurate.

It was Mary Anne Evans aka George Eliot in fact.

I think you are right Fennel.
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hope-relationships/201402/brain-differences-between-genders

Fennel sadly it is not as simple as "that's too bad!

Sexist remarks are unacceptable.

A lot of people, men and women will find this offensive.

Probably well they might, a lot of people find much to be offended about these days but in fact what Fennel said is probably true according to research.

And vive la difference!

Charlotte Bronte was writing her works at a time (the 1840s) when women authors were not taken as seriously as male authors. Bronte started to use a male pseudonym when she published her and her sisters poems under the names of Currer, Ellis, and Acton Bell, male pen-names.

FFS!
Is this anything to do with Brexit?
I suppose Charlotte Bronte was a closet Brexiteer too!

Did she do the Grand Continental Tour or was that confined to the male of the species only?

Bullies!

Who - the Bronte sisters?

Charlotte did live and work in Brussels for a year or so. And fell in love there. Her book “Villette” was set there.
So perhaps she’s more likely to be a Remainer?

Probably!

I didn't know that and I haven't read Villette, must look out for that one, thanks mostlyharmless

Must be wineoclock!