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Unintended consequences of brexit

(1001 Posts)
varian Wed 09-May-18 18:40:33

An executive at Airbus says that work on the Galileo sat-nav system will have to be moved out of the UK if the company wins a key contract. Galileo has become something of a political football in Brexit talks. The EU says it would have to stop the UK from accessing the encrypted part of the network when it leaves next year.

Colin Paynter, the company's UK managing director, said that EU rules required Airbus to transfer all work to its factories in France and Germany. Mr Paynter was speaking at a Commons committee hearing on Exiting the European Union on Wednesday.

The system was conceived to give Europe its own satellite-navigation capability - independent of US GPS - for use in telecommunications, commercial applications, by emergency services and the military. Airbus is currently bidding for the renewal of a contract covering the Galileo ground control segment - potentially worth about 200 million euros. This work is currently run out of Portsmouth.

About 100 people are currently employed by Airbus on these services. Most would likely have to move to where the work is, but it's possible some could be reallocated to other projects.

"One of the conditions in that bid documentation from the European Space Agency is that all work has to be led by an EU-based company by March '19," Mr Paynter told the committee. Effectively that means that for Airbus to bid and win that work, we will effectively novate (move) all of the work from the UK to our factories in France and Germany on day one of that contract."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44055475

MaizieD Fri 11-May-18 09:48:55

Any resulting delays could choke the UK’s ports and threaten the availability of some food products for UK consumers.

This little throwaway line brings back memories of the 70s when there were some genuine food shortages (sugar) but the mere hint of the possibility of a foodstuff being in short supply had shop shelves swept clean within hours of the rumour. Do we remember Maggie Thatcher defending such behaviour as being that of the 'prudent housewife? hmm

I really don't think it would be much fun to live through that again...

BTW that was a fine non-sequitor thread diverter there, AG. The report is not about animal welfare. It's about the implications for food prices and supply post-Brexit. Based on expert evidence...

Welshwife Fri 11-May-18 10:39:37

In the U.K. DEFRA keep a register of all hormones given to cattle etc and it is a legal requirement for them to be told.

The USA meat is not reared to the same tight standards of European meat and neither is Australian. If it were those countries would not already be telling the U.K. it will need to drop some of its requirements with the meat quality if they want a trade deal. And in many cases - such as India and Australia - that they wish to have unlimited visas for their population to work in the U.K.

varian Fri 11-May-18 11:24:11

Britain is “in trouble” as a result of the “mistake” in voting to leave the European Union, the vice-chancellor of Oxford University has warned. Louise Richardson said the Brexit decision has left the UK turning inward that will result in the university struggling to attract the best academics from the EU, and lead to a fall in student numbers from Europe.

inews.co.uk/news/education/brexit-mistake-has-left-britain-in-trouble-says-oxford-university-boss/

varian Fri 11-May-18 11:25:40

Professor Richardson's views are shared by the vast majority of UK academics- but of course these people are "experts"

GillT57 Fri 11-May-18 12:51:20

Yes, those pesky experts eh Varian? Who needs them, with their years of experience, their professional skills when we have all the Brexiteers dismissing them as no better than fortune tellers looking into their crystal ball? Why listen to farmers, transport companies, business owners when we have all these Brexit experts at our fingertips, all ready to tell us we are making a fuss about nothing?

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 12:51:30

MaizieD
BTW that was a fine non-sequitor thread diverter there, AG. The report is not about animal welfare. It's about the implications for food prices and supply post-Brexit. Based on expert evidence...

Maizie the point was, that the NFU believe that low standards of animal welfare equate to saving on cost of rearing animals. Therefore cheaper production costs mean that their members, British farmers, cannot compete because their animal welfare standards are higher and more costly and they cannot compete. Love the "non-sequitor thread diverter".

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 12:57:01

GillT57

Being a leave voter I don't think that farmers, transport companies, business owners are as you say "making a fuss about nothing". It is of course only some of those area's of business who have concerns, however, they are real concerns and should not be dismissed, nor are they.

The other issue here is that no one can claim to be an expert on Brexit we have never done it before and therefore we are all in uncharted waters. Some people are pessimistic and others are optimistic, that's understandable.

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 12:58:47

Varian can you tell me who the vast majority of academics in the UK are who agree with Professor Richardson?

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:03:28

Varian, Professor Richardsons is expressing his view that you agree with I don't . The main point is that this was a decision taken in a democratic election and in the UK the majority vote carries and is acted upon by Government.

We can all have our views, and in a healthy society we should have, but at the end of the day the majority have it, be that 3, 30 or thousands.

varian Fri 11-May-18 13:03:34

Sorry I can't give you a list of names Allygran. Will this do?-

90 per cent of academics think Brexit will have a negative impact on higher education...... The vast majority of academics working in the UK think that Brexit will have a negative impact on UK higher education, according to a YouGov survey commissioned by the University and College Union (UCU).

www.varsity.co.uk/news/11716

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:23:26

The EFSA says it stands by its findings from 2005 research that concluded:

“On the basis of available data and taking into account that processing of poultry carcasses (washing, cooking) would take place before consumption, the Panel considers that treatment with trisodium phosphate, acidified sodium chlorite, chlorine dioxide, or peroxyacid solutions, under the described conditions of use, would be of no safety concern.”

Similarly, a panel in 2012 said the use of chemical substances in poultry is “unlikely to pose an immediate or acute health risk for consumers”.

The EFSA has also stressed that “the use of antimicrobial solutions does not replace the need for good hygienic practices during processing of poultry carcasses, particularly during handling…”. It also cautioned that it hadn’t looked at data on the by-products of chlorine use, aside from the chickens themselves. "
Source: Full facts

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:24:52

Thanks Varian I will check it out.

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:31:09

Varian I have taken a look at the link article. It seems that Professor Richardson's comments were in the context of academia in regards to student numbers and current students from Europe.

Britain is “in trouble” as a result of the “mistake” in voting to leave the European Union, the vice-chancellor of Oxford University has warned.

"Louise Richardson said the Brexit decision has left the UK turning inward that will result in the university struggling to attract the best academics from the EU, and lead to a fall in student numbers from Europe."
www.varsity.co.uk/news/11716

GillT57 Fri 11-May-18 13:35:31

Why are the opinions of one set of experts, EFSA, valuable and to be listened to when the opinions of other experts such as those quoted by Varian not worth listening to? How many groups of concerned parties such as economists, farmers, food manufacturers, academics will it take to convince people that there are likely hard times ahead, and the losses will far outweigh the gains. Interesting chap on QT last night, chief of formula 1, major employer, major income generator. Very concerned about us leaving EU. But there again, he is an expert and will be dismissed.

varian Fri 11-May-18 13:35:54

I think that "struggling to attract the best academics" refers to University lecturers and researchers as well as students

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:52:08

GillT57 It is not a case of one set of experts against another set are better, they are different views and offer balanced debate. Everyone is to be listen to.
I am about to put up a web site made up of 37 academics and professionals who have a positive view of Brexit, with a link so people can view it if they wish.

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:54:41

A 37 strong panel of academics and professionals have set up a website briefingsforbrexit.com/
Their purpose is to offer positive views on Brexit.

They are:

Professor Gwythian Prins, Emeritus Research Professor, London School of Economics, visiting academic professor, École Spéciale Militaire de Saint-Cyr
Dr Philip Towle, Emeritus Reader in International Relations, and former Director of the Centre of International Studies, Cambridge
Sir Andrew Wood, former UK Ambassador to Yugoslavia and to Russia, and currently Associate Fellow, Russia and Eurasia Programme, Chatham House.
Philip Cunliffe Senior Lecturer in International Conflict, University of Kent.
Lord Maurice Glasman is a Labour Peer and political theorist and Director of the Common Good Foundation
Professor Robert J. Jackson is Distinguished Professor at Carleton University Ottawa and Emeritus Fletcher Jones Professor of International Relations at the University of Redlands, California.
Jonathan Rutherford, writer and political adviser, is Emeritus Professor of Cultural Studies, Middlesex University
Professor Richard Tuck, FBA, Frank G. Thomson Professor of Government at Harvard
Professor David Abulafia, FBA, is Professor of Mediterranean History, Cambridge
Professor Robert Colls, Professor of Cultural History at De Montfort University
Sir Noel Malcolm, FBA, is a Senior Research Fellow at All Souls’ College, Oxford
Andrew Roberts, Historian and biographer. Lehrman Institute Distinguished Fellow at the New York Historical Society and Visiting professor at the War Studies Department, Kings College London
Dr. Daniel Robinson, international history, Fellow of Magdalen College, University of Oxford, formerly Senior Policy Adviser to the Minister for the Cabinet Office on the Union and Devolution in the aftermath of Brexit.
Professor Jonathan Rutherford, writer, political adviser and Emeritus Professor of Cultural Studies, Middlesex University and co-founder of Blue Labour
Dr Peter Sarris Reader in Late Roman, Medieval and Byzantine History, Cambridge
Prof David Coleman, Professor of Demography, University of Oxford Institute of Population Aging.
Pamela Dow, formerly director of strategy at the Ministry of Justice, now chief reform officer, Catch22
Dr Joanna Williams, author and academic. Education Editor of Spiked magazine. Author of Academic Freedom in an Age of Conformity (Palgrave/McMillan)
Dr Ian Winter is a senior lecturer in the Department of Physiology, Development and Neuroscience, Cambridge

Dr Graham Gudgin Economist, Centre for Business Research, Judge Business School University of Cambridge
Professor Robert Tombs Emeritus Professor of French History, University of Cambridge
Sir Richard Aikens, QC, is a former member of the Court of Appeal, and has served as Vice President of the Council of Europe’s Consultative Council of European Judges
Baroness Ruth Deech, former chair of the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority, and former Principal of St Anne’s College, Oxford
Dr. Richard Ekins, Associate Professor in Law, St. Johns College, University of Oxford.
Professor Carol Harlow, QC, FBA, Emeritus Professor of Law at the London School of Economic
Professor Guglielmo Verdirame, Professor of International Law King’s College, London
Mr. Alexander Darwall, Jupiter Fund Management.
Sir Paul Marshall, Marshall Wace, Chairman of ARK Schools
Mr Rory Maw, Bursar, Magdalen College, Oxford
Dame Helena Morrissey. Head of Personal Investing. Legal and General Investment Management. Formerly Chief Executive, Newton Investment Management.
Professor Paul Ormerod, economist at Volterra Partners, a Visiting Professor at the UCL Centre for
Mr.Edmond Truell, Disruptive Capital Finance, London
Professor Nigel Biggar, Regius Prof of Moral and Pastoral Theology, and Canon of Christ Church, University of Oxford
Professor Paul Elbourne, Professor of the Philosophy of Language, Magdalen College, Oxford University
Dr James Orr McDonald Post-Doctoral Fellow in Theology, Ethics and Public Life, Christchurch College, University of Oxford
Dr. Tom Simpson, philosophy of public policy, Blavatnik School, University of Oxford
Professor John Tasioulas, Director of the Yeoh Tiong Lay Centre for Politics, Philosophy, and Law, King’s College, London
Dr Philip Cunliffe, Senior Lecturer in International Conflict, University of Kent
Sir Richard Dearlove, former head of the Secret Intelliegence Service, former master of Pembroke College, Cambridge, and Chair of the Trustees, University of London
Mr John Forsyth, former member of the Council of the Royal Institute for International Affairs and Centre of International Studies, Cambridge
Dr Lee Jones, Reader in International Politics, Queen Mary, University of London
Sir Peter Marshall, retired FCO, former Assistant Sec-Gen of Commonwealth

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 13:56:04

Varian yes your right it does.

mostlyharmless Fri 11-May-18 14:05:06

Mmmm.
So are you an “expert” or an “activist” allyg?
Weren’t you railing against activist infiltration of Gransnet the other day?

I almost today thought of doing some research on activist infiltrating these sorts of sight. I have journalist friend and I though of asking the question has the political forum Gransnet been infiltrated. allyg

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 14:17:30

Not doing this mostlyharmless. Don't waste your breath.

mostlyharmless Fri 11-May-18 14:21:29

Did you mean by “put up a website” that you were launching your own website on Gransnet? Or did you mean you were “posting a link to a website”?

Allygran1 Fri 11-May-18 14:28:35

Posting a website mostlyharmless. Just click on the link.

mostlyharmless Fri 11-May-18 14:34:48

I thought “Put up a website” usually meant “I’m going to create a website”.
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you meant.

varian Fri 11-May-18 14:40:58

Well done for finding a list of 37 academics who support brexit. It is not possible to list those who oppodse it as there are far too many.

mostlyharmless Fri 11-May-18 14:44:36

On the other hand some senior Brexiteers are now having doubts about Brexit:

A senior Brexiteer today admitted leaving the European Union is “not working out” the way it was planned.

Dan Hannan, the Conservative MEP whose speeches against Brussels went viral on YouTube, said Britain should seek an “Efta-type arrangement, à la Suisse” to protect trade with the EU.

He expressed surprise that an uncompromising Brexit was being pursued despite the closeness of the 52-48 referendum result which backed Leave.

Mr Hannan, writing on ConservativeHome, said he was often asked, “not working out the way you thought, is it?” He said: “To be fair, they’ve got a point.” He went on: “I had assumed that, by now, we’d have reached a broad national consensus around a moderate form of withdrawal that recognised the narrowness of the result.”

He backed being in the European Free Trade Association (Efta) — participation in the single market of 500 million people, but without the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

Former minister Stephen Hammond, a Remain backer, said the idea was gaining traction among MPs. “It solves our regulatory issues, allows access, but not membership, [to the] single market, gives us a say, rather than no say, on regulation and allows the prospect of negotiations on restricting movement to workers not citizens,” he said.

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