Regret it Brexit Part 2

That post was to Grandad 1943

those disaster capitalist know what they are doing to fill their massive pockets to bursting...... whilst ordinary people pay the price in a 1,000 of ways, it's all so tragicly simple
I hope your including the Germans in that statement. They have made hundreds of billions out of the Greek debt

The EU is a closed shop! Made millions out of Greece?! and in doing so reduced its people to years of poverty and despair, and will do the same to any other country inside the block and beyond, that dates to cross their path. How wicked is that! That people want to belong to and actually support an outfit that behaves like this without any thought to the utter devastation they are causing ordinary folk is beyond belief. I suppose I'm alright Jack, and to hell with everyone else' is the order of the day!

dares, not dates!!

Greece was hardly a booming economy before it joined the EU and it was quite happy to adjust the books so they could join. The Greek Govt of the time were well aware of what they were doing.

And the EU were more than happy to let them and colluded whole heartedly with this adjustment! Greece wasn't a booming economy that's for certain, but it had its own way of doing things and was a beautiful if a slow lane country with charming people which should have been properly vetted before the EU even considered it membership. What happened to Greece was just devastating width the EU aiding and abetting, until they pounced!

niggly
I don't know who hates the eu more, me or you

On the World at One programme on Radio 4 today an economist from the European Centre for Political Economy talked about the relative weakness oif the UK negotiating position. He said "is it sensible to say to someone "If you don't do what I say I will blow me brains out. You may get possible a flesh wound from a passing bullet?" "

This section starts about fourteen minutes into the programme and is of course followed be an ultra brexiteer saying "no problem"

The previous section of the programme featured Catherine Barnard , Professor of European law at the University of Cambridge. Her dire warnings should be heeded. She is one of the very few experts who really understand the implications of leaving the EU.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b85lqx

For every expert in something or other who ‘really understands the implications of Brexit’ ( from a Remain point of view) there is another expert ( from the Leave point of view’) who also ‘understands the implications of Brexit’and his/her view is the opposite.
‘You pays yer money and yer takes yer choice’

And in the meantime th GVT has admittd it is stockpiling medication/drugs, including those for cancer and other life threatening conditions, in preparation for a NO deal scenario.

There are very few "leave" experts. The weight of informed opinion has always been predominantly on the "remain" side. I would say for every leave "expert" there must be at least a hundred better informed "remain" experts.

That is why Michael Gove urged people to ignore experts.

That is prudent of the Government then, if true jura

Of course you would say that Varian

Last Friday it was all going so well at the summit Re 'the new immigration policy'
Now Merkels interior minister,Horst Seehofer has resigned, I think her days are numbered.
It took them 4 months to form this last government, what now. Not a good time for the the most powerful country in Europe to have these problems. My heart bleeds.

petra
Say five Hail Mary’s in penance.

petra! ? I think we both 'hate' the 'EU' in equal measure!!

So much “hate”. Is that really what this is all about?

It would seem that way ! What puzzles me is, why have a get out clause (article50) in the agreement if in reality it can't be used?!! All we've done is exercise a right to leave this organisation in what we hoped could be an orderly fashion, not committed a criminal offense comparable to heresy!
Surely in having such a clause the EU must have been aware that one day someone might want to put it into operation and have been able to react accordingly. I can see that they're are being tough to prevent others getting the same idea! But surely nobody in this benevolent, all embracing organisation could possibly want to leave, except silly old Briton, so why the fuss?!! I would hate to think that if eventually Scotland wishes to leave the Union, Westminster would deliberately, methodically set out to ruin them!

Why blame the EU for being “difficult” our government can’t agree on what they want if the reports on Gove tearing up May’s proposals are anything to go by.

I do not believe that the EU negotiators are set on ruining Britain on its exit from Europe. However, I have no doubts that they stand completely confused by the British government's total incompetence in being unable to bring forward any credible negotiating position to the EU at any time in the two years since the referendum.

The problem is not the European Union trying to ruin Britain, it is Britain ruining itself by the rifts in the political party and government which has brought us all into the position we find ourselves now.

Judging by media reports today, those rifts continue to grow in the Tory party leaving a hard Brexit practically the only option left open to them. However, those blinkered, stupid ultra right wingers leading that option seem not to realize that there is no majority in the House of Commons for such action.

Should the government fall trying to push a "no deal" exit through parliament, then Britain could face a constitutional crisis the scale of which has never been wittnessed in Britain throughout modern times.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with A50. It's just that before implementing it a country must have a very clear strategy, based on the practicalities of disentangling itself from the legal entity which is the EU and of the intricacies and timing of negotiations.

As the government's only strategy seemed to be that of insisting that we leave the EU but retain all of its benefits without any consideration of how this could be done or even stopping to consider that it might not be possible, it is not surprising that they are in a complete mess now.

What on earth possessed May to lay down all those 'red lines' right at the start when it was clear that they wouldn't be acceptable to the EU, I do not know.

Good post, grandad and I agree with your conclusion.

Of course the UK can use article 50and get out ... but it has to be prepared to pay the massive, drastic consequences... which will leave the country, the NHS and all our essential services starved of funds... and the consequent effects on the majority of people. Nobody is bullying the UK ... they quite sensibly say, if you want o be part of the club, or have strong association to the club, to your advantage, some rules have to abided by, and you need to pay your fair share. The UK already had negotiated huge rights no pne else got,
like keeping Sterling and opting out of Schengen....

David Davis has spent just 4 hours in talks with Michel Barnier this year

www.ft.com/content/9e3aacf0-7b9c-11e8-bc55-50daf11b720d

What was the point? Surely before triggering Article 50 the government should have agreed what they want. DD is obviously useless but since none of them know what it is they are aiming for, there really wasn't any point in starting the process.

Of course, David Davis famously said that this would be the easiest negotiation in history, so maybe he thought there was no need to know what the government wants, and four hours would be more than enough.

I believe today (2nd July) has seen the disagreements within this Tory government sink to new levels. We have senior ministers telling others ministers and MPs to "shut up" and reports in the media of Secretaries of State now "doing their own thing" within their departments and in that disregarding whatever any government policy may be.

We also have witnessed Jacob Reece-Mogg instructing the Prime Minister to deliver the "version of Brexit promised" which is without a doubt his hard-line version of Brexit being that no one within government seems to know exactly what was promised.

We are told that the Prime Minister has come forward with a third version of a customs agreement even though any agreement JRM and those surrounding him have made clear would be unacceptable if any hard Brexit concessions have to be made to gain it.

The EU negotiators must be thinking "what a shambles" and how do they talk to the British representatives with any confidence anything they agree on will be passed by the British parliament.

The whole situation would normally be laughable if it were not for the fact that hundreds of thousands of UK jobs are at stake in all this totally incompetent behaviour.

I’ve heard that May is holding a Murder-Mystery weekend at Chequers this Friday. So the Cabinet can thrash out the Mystery “third way” plan to solve the Irish border problem.
The question is, whose blood will be left on the carpet?

The EU have far too much to worry about without Brexit being a big deal to them at the moment.
The Conservatives will rally, because, for a political party (any) being in power is more important in the end to them,
Than any disagreements that could end in an election.