Regret it Brexit Part 2

Sour posting from you Varian and incredibly rude too.
Of course Leavers in GN have got used to that from you in the last two years.
You don’t like hearing well informed views about ‘the other side of the coin’.
Allygran will, I hope, continue to add balance to this thread.

Surely it would be impossible for even the most enthusiastic brexiter to maintain that things are going well. You might have to take sides - who do you think will get the best result- Theresa May or her many detractors in the cabinet?

Theresa May will gather her senior ministers in surroundings more suited to a murder mystery weekend than a Cabinet meeting next week. The Prime Minister has ordered her team to a crunch Brexit meeting on Friday at Chequers, her official retreat that bears more than a passing resemblance to the country house setting of a typical Agatha Christie novel.

www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/macer-hall/981799/brexit-latest-theresa-may-mystery-meeting-cabinet

I can’t locate any rude or sour comments from Varian.

plenty of perpetual articles ending with one sentence as in I agree with an article written by someone else. agreeing is not really a genuine opinion IMHO as they say

Varian, I salute you, you have the patience of saint... not rude or sour for sure.

I don't have a problem choosing between Theresa May and Micheal Gove. I can't stand either of them.

For the Tory brexiters it must be difficult. Do you support a feeble ineffective PM who was a terrible Home Secretary, author of the "hostile environment" policy which lead to Windrush immigrants who had lived in the UK for fifty years or more being forcibly deported, the woman who ostensibly supported Remain because she thought that would be the winning side, but did no campaigning, then as soon as she got into power changed into a hard line brexiter with her stupid unnecessary redlines- or do you support the man wbo was the most unpopular Education Secretary in living memory, who was his good friend Boris's number one supporter for the Tory leadership until he stabbed bin (methodically) in the back and put himself up as candidate???

Of course you ‘don’t have a problem choosing’ Varian as you support a bunch of feeble ineffective Lib Dems.
They couldn’t/wouldn’t be able to organise anything if they were in charge of handling negotiations to leave the EU, and neither would the other feeble ineffective one ( Corbyn.)
The bureaucrats in the EU were always going to give the UK a hard time, self serving as they are and have always been, so whoever deals with them has a poisoned chalice.

lemongrove, I would be most interested in your opinion as to whom in the Tory cabinet is doing a great, effective job of the Brexit negotiations. Thanks.

Nope, you really wouldn't be interested.

Since none of us knows the exact truth of what goes on behind the scenes and at the negotiating meetings, how about waiting for what will come out eventually, instead of all the crystall ball gazing and doomy predictions.

oh yes, I would be very interested. Living in limbo is very stressful and exhausting, depressing even. Your optimism in the face of this utter and total shambles is amazing indeed.
Just look at what is going on in the Cabinet, never mind Brexit and beyond.

It’s not optimism so much as pragmatism and realism.
Just reading the papers with sensational stories plumped up about Cabinet infighting and various people shouting ‘OMG nothing is happening yet!’ Is bound to make you stressed and exhausted.
Wait until it does happen is sound advice, you will sleep better.
It was always going to be a protracted business ( the negotiations) with both sides wanting different things, something as big as this cannot be rushed.

lemongrove, your patience and courtesy is outstanding.

? (modest smile )
I does me best Ally

Of course T May would have been in a stronger position had she run a better campaign in the GE, but let’s be honest,
The EU negotiators are doing their damn best to show other countries why they shouldn't also try and leave.
In the end, if the EU want our money they are going to have to make compromises and so are we.
Worth it to be shot of them for the future.

the reality is now dawning... re Russian money being
pumped in the Leave Machine... and that the Cabinet is desperately allowing time to run out, by pretend incompetence, to opt for no deal...

Those of us living in Europe will be seriously affected in so many ways, financially, re right to permanent residence or move to other country, health care, pensions, traveling with our dogs (may seem silly to some, but it would cause so much heartache and massive costs and inconvenience) and so much more. I am so grateful that we both have dual citizenship, and our children nd grandchildren too.

It took a while for many to understand how and why David D and others could possibly be so clueless and totally out of their depth... but it does seem now that it was a deliberate ploy... let the clock run out on any kind of deal... deliberate aim rather than incompetence. Rees Mogg’s clan can in the meantime discuss freely and behind the front show, how much they can sell to America, and how many rights, welfare, environment standards, NHS, etc, etc. they can scrap. One of the most lucrative forms of financing the few, to th detriment of the population, is ‘Disaster Capitalism’ ... massive sums can be acquired VERY fast selling ne buying currencies and businesses in a disaster or crisis. Thos disaster Capitalists know what they are doing to fill their massive pockets to bursting... whilst ordinary people pay the price, in a 1000 of ways. It is all so tragically simple.

I see it reported today that EU airports have been advised to make plans for a no deal Brexit - it which case there can be no flights between U.K. and Europe as certificates issued by the EU for flights, maintenance etc will no longer be valid. Not sure who will be issuing these certificates post Brexit - i have not seen that anywhere.

To me this story is yet another pointer to show how much control and sovereignty the UK has lost .

We have been so used to being controlled by EU law and diktats we have lost sight of how our independence to provide , fend for ourselves outside of the EU actually is showing.

Whether or not 'any' or 'none' of the predicaments raised over the past 2 years since the decision by a Democratic vote took place to exitthe European Union it has certainly opened our eyes to the fact we are in a sort of Stockholme Syndrome politically and economically.

Brexit supporters now seem to have retreated to a position of having their "heads buried in the sand". They wish to ignore the warnings from business even when it is backed up by statistics such as a 50% reduction in vehicle production forward investment. In the foregoing, they also state that the general public are not aware of all that is "going on in the background".

To the above, I would state, that the British public is only too well aware of what is going on in both the background and foreground as senior cabinet ministers insist on informing all and sundry exactly what the rows in the government are and their own position in those rows.

In short, we have a government in compleat disarray over Brexit and in that for over two years have been unable to put forward any coherent policy for Britains withdraw to the EU negotiators.

In the above, the most fervent Brexitiers state that we should "just walk away" and crash out of the EU with a hard Brexit. These people ignore the fact that such action would put hundreds of thousands of jobs at severe risk in the UK and also these same people wish to ignore another fact that there is no majority in the House of Commons for such action.

While proposing the above many wealthy Tories in that Parliament who were at the forefront of the Brexit campaign are moving their money and investments offshore. At the same, time these people are still telling the rest of the British public to jump off the financial cliff and hope somehow to have a soft landing though not knowing how that could possibly come about.

Let us all face it, this whole situation has been brought about by deep seated splits in the Tory party that brought down the John Major Government and which David Cameron thought he could resolve with a referendum that he could not lose. The morning following that referendum result, Cameron ran away leaving Britain in the position it finds itself now, a laughing stock in the eyes of the world.

How will this "New Labour Party" finance its existence? The Unite Union is surveying its membership in regards to Brexit and preliminary results from that survey demonstrate that three out of every four members now believe that Brexit will have a detrimental effect on their employment.

If that result is confirmed Unite with other Unions will without doubt put enormous pressure on Corbyn and those around him to take a far firmer stance against Brexit.

Should he not, then a change of leader would be very much on the cards I believe. Who would stand with any possibility of being elected would be then the big question. One thing in that would be certain, it will be none of the old Blair/Brown era generation as they are now seen as not true labour people in any way.

Jennie Formby the recently elected General Secretary of the Labour movement has stated that it is her ambition to have the parliamentary Labour party brought back into close alliance with the trades unions and that in my opinion is exactly how it should be. One movement containing one party.

It is the members of those trades unions that have financed the Labour Party through "thick and thin" for more than one hundred years. Therefore it is right that their voices should be heard at a time when many of their jobs are now severely at risk through Brexit.

To those of the old guard Labour Party that took those union members money and gave back nothing for it so many years, I would say "move on the gravy train has dried up for you" as it should have done immediately following the Iraq war and the banking crisis.

Career politicians with no real experience of life outside of Parliament are not what is wanted in Labour. People with wide experience of working in all industries is what is required in parliament for the future of this country.

Perhaps there could be 2 parties one called New Militant Tendency/Socialist Party and the other New Labour/democratic party.

They do say history repeats itself .

Grandad 1943

I asked you this question before but I don't think you replied, apologies if you did.

The Lib Dems were once anti European Union , we all know that. I thought the Unions were at one time anti the European Union and back benchers like Tony Benn, Corbyn, Skinner were their voice in parliament. Am I mistaken?

I am no fan of Dennis Skinner but at least ' he ' has remained a conviction politician and not changed his tune, albeit at the cost of spiteful comment from those who oppose his right to hold his opinion.

POGS, yes many of the unions were anti-European Union in the past. However, as the complexity of leaving the EU has become apparent the various trade sectors within unions such as Unite have realised the threat to jobs it represents and are now surveying their membership in regard to a change of policy.

It's called pragmatism POGS, something the unions have to carry out all the time when dealing with employers.

Anyway like millions of others round the world I am off to watch the football.

Let's see if Russia can cause another upset against Spain.

I voted to leave the EU, as did many who live in the North of England. I think the shock of the election was that we did not vote as the South expected us to do. I like many are losing patience with the politicians though, but if there was to be another referendum tomorrow I would still vote to leave.

If only 'pragmatism' was being used by ALL since the Referendum took place both here and in the EU. I remain of the opinion I held from the outcome of the Referendum there will only be a case of politics trumping economics and I am even more of the opinion the EU is a Protectionist Market.

Maybe in the coming months we shall see some move toward ' pragmatism ' but I am not holding my breath.