Regret it Brexit Part 2

The attempt to secure a “meaningful vote” that could have potentially given MPs the power to stop Britain leaving the EU without a deal has been defeated.

The final obstacle to the EU withdrawal bill was removed as MPs voted 303 to 319 against an amendment tabled by the former attorney general Dominic Grieve – before he accepted government reassurances about its respect for the power of MPs to hold it to account.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/20/lead-tory-rebel-dominic-grieve-accepts-brexit-meaningful-vote-compromise

So there will be no meaningful vote! Is this a victory for the anti-democratic forces of brexit - The Daily Mail, Express, Sun, Farage, Aaron Banks, Vladimir Putin et al ?

Is this a victory for the anti-democratic forces of brexit

It's a very bad day for Parliamentary sovereignty.

But do people care about that?

I'm so disappointed - I was hoping that integrity would win out.

Very disappointing.
Just have to hope that the Government can negotiate a good Customs Union deal now.
Or a people’s vote on Brexit/Remain perhaps?

Tens of thousands of people from every part of the UK – as well as a contingent from Gibraltar – will fill central London on Saturday 23rd June to demand a People’s Vote on the final Brexit deal in what will be the UK’s biggest ever pro-European protest march.

The March for a People’s Vote will be held on the second anniversary of the Brexit referendum. The campaign for a People’s Vote, which for the first time unites every major pro-European campaigning organisation, is gearing up for a summer of action and mobilisation – with the focus on getting grassroots activists to lobby their MPs to support a People’s Vote on the final Brexit deal.

The public mobilisation for the march starts today [Friday] with the campaign releasing a promotional video, which features a range of political figures and campaigners, and launching a crowd funding appeal to raise £100,000 to meet the costs of organising and advertising for the march.

www.open-britain.co.uk/biggest_ever_pro_european_march_to_be_held_on_23rd_june_for_a_people_s_vote

Airbus has warned it could leave the UK if it exits the European Union single market and customs union without a transition deal. The European planemaker said the warning was not part of "project fear", but was a "dawning reality".

Airbus employs 14,000 people at 25 sites in the UK - around half in Wales.

The UK government said it was confident of getting a good deal for all industries, but the Welsh government said it was "extremely worrying".

Last week, the outgoing president of the CBI said sections of UK industry faced extinction unless the UK stayed in the EU customs union.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44570931

If Airbus goes, a hundred thousand U.K. jobs would go. 14,000 employees and 80,000 further jobs from suppliers etc.

Just think of all those families now worried sick and those who may not get to finish their apprenticeships.

In the real world, how long would it take to move everything involved with the building of the airbus (in the uk) and get it up and running wherever that might be.
It's not realistic, is it?

I forgot to add, after all, we only make the engines and the wings, don't we!!

One of the great advantages of being in the EU is to do with co-ordination and, yes, standardisation.

Up until now, we have played an equal role in determining the standards, in everything from aviation to medical laboratory practice and telecommunication technology. We have a seat at the table where our experts contribute to the standards.

If we leave, but still want to fly planes to EU countries, or have our medical research validated or many other vitally important things. we will have to obey the EU directives without having a say.

This is not "taking back control". It is "losing any vestige of control".

We Import components from other countries, then ship off parts to the continent or China or the US for them to be made into whole products. Liam Fox can bog on about striking new trade deals, but he’ll be waiting a long time to find a buyer in New Zealand for the plane wings made in Wales. Airbus can easily move production to France, Germany or Korea, and why wouldn’t they?

I voted to remain in the Brexit referendum and in the two years since the ballot I have been prepared to see Britain leave the European Union as that is what the majority in the United Kingdom voted for.

However, I do not believe that even the most stringent leave voters in any way felt that exiting the EU would be so complex and detrimental to the United Kingdom as it has turned out to be. With Airbus and BMW advising yesterday (22nd June) that future investment and even remaining in Britain was now at stake unless a workable transition plan comes forward very quickly has brought home to many I believe the perilous commercial position that the United Kingdom is now in.

Along with the above, as Donald Trump cranks up his trade war with the rest of the world, negotiating commerce agreements with other countries is obviously going to be much more difficult as protectionism becomes the order of the day in all negotiations. The world is now a very different place to that which existed in 2016 when the referendum was held. It may yet change further before March 2019 when Britain is due to actually leave the EU.

Whether Britain leaves with a trading agreement or just decides to walk away from the European Union will be a decision that deeply affects not only the present population of the UK, but also many generations to come. Therefore, I believe that not only should Parliament have a "meaningful say" in accepting or rejecting whatever is brought back from the negotiations, but also the whole population of the United Kingdom should also have a "meaningful say" in accepting or rejecting what is In front of this country before any further move is made in regard to the future.

Many thousands of people who are marching in London TODAY agree

Airbus and BMW advised that staying and making future investment in Britain was at stake Grandad not that they are pulling out of Britain.

I'm sure as a leave voter I wasn't alone in realising the complexity of leaving the EU. As for the detriment to the UK, thank goodness that the forecasts made by the prophets of doom to be expected when the result was made known, didn't materialise.

I agree that the world has changed since 2016 and may change even more by 2019 but as none of us know what those changes may be, if indeed there any, we cannot know whether they'll be beneficial or detrimental to Britain.

The whole population of voting age in the UK was given the opportunity 2 years ago to accept our continued membership of the EU or reject it; it was rejected.

"Many thousands" may be marching in London today varian but millions voted in the referendum and the majority voted to leave.

Smileless2012, following the referendum the British economy did hold up well, but no one can now deny that situation has now very much changed. Britain now has the slowest growth rate of any developed nation. In that, uncertainty in the outcome of the leave negotiations has without doubt affected Britain's economic performance and will continue to do so as long as that uncertainty continues.

Large multinational manufacturing companies such as Airbus and BMW need frictionless border trade as products such as vehicle parts can cross those borders several times during a course of production. Therefore, such companies as the above will not exist in Britain in future years if frictionless trade with our EU counterparts does not exist.

A factor that is now playing a major part in resolving any of the above would be the belief in many quarters that the divisions and incompetence within the present government in regard to the Brexit negotiations will prevent any solution or agreement being brought forward.

Hence, the above is why I believe that Parliament and the British people must be given the final say in regard to any agreement put forward, or that we just walk away or even remain within the European Union

What is the real problem with Airbus?
Under WTO rules there are no tariffs on civil aircraft parts ( only military)
Airbus imports engines into the eu from the USA under WTO. Trade talks are very acrimonious with the eu and the USA right now, but is Airbus making threats to the USA, no.
So what else is going on?

The danger of Brexit to Airbus is that supply chains would grind to a halt if long customs checks were imposed at the British border.

Prime Minister Theresa May's spokeswoman said a deal will be done before the withdrawal from the European Union next year.

"We are confident that we are going to get a good deal, one that ensures that trade is as free and frictionless as possible, including for the aerospace sector," a spokeswoman said yesterday.

www.independent.ie/business/brexit/may-confident-of-brexit-deal-after-airbus-threat-to-leave-37040219.html

Trade "as free and frictionless as possible" is exactly what we have now, but unfortunately two years ago the leavers voted to "control our borders".

There is an inherent contradiction here. We will never have such a smooth movement of components to and from other EU countries if we leave. A multi-million pound production line could not survive random delays at borders.

Airbus are just making noises, they have no intention of relocating, can you imagine how long it would take for them to do that? And re staff with skilled people.It won’t happen.
Yes, uncertainty is affecting our economic performance, but there won’t be uncertainty for that much longer.

Airbus have said they will take some staff with them as they have been doing but they said some time ago that after Brexit date they would honour current contracts but not renew. They already have the facilities in one of the Eastern countries reasonably ready to take over the production.
The people who work there are not at all confident production could not be moved elsewhere so it would be foolish for anyone else to think it could not be moved.

The same just in time (JIT) delivery logistics apply to the food industry. Therefore any delays at ports and airports would soon become apparent in Britains supermarkets. In that, as more vehicles would be required costs will increase and fresh quality may decline being that fresh produce etc are then involved in longer transport times

I agree with you Grandad about the divisions which IMO is the major stumbling block when it comes to the negotiations.

All politicians IMO regardless of their party should have been, from the outset, working together to get the best deal they can for the UK.

In fighting has been a major problem for the last 2 years and I'm convinced that a major factor is the desire to derail the negotiations in an effort to prevent Brexit.

If the final say is given to Parliament and the people and the final agreement is rejected, where do we go from there?

Remaining in the EU isn't an option due to the referendum result and TM has stated on numerous occasions that "brexit means brexit". That only leaves walking away with no deal and is that really what people want?

I was wondering that too petra, when it comes to Airbus, what else is going on?

Airbus is a company set up and owned by the EU - after Brexit the U.K. would be trading as a 3rd country - not such a puzzle at to what is going on.

No, not a puzzle at all, it’s political, another instance of the EU trying to strong arm the UK into doing what it wants.
Airbus should put up or shut up.

Smileless2012, as I stated in my post @ 13:29 today, "Hence, the above is why I believe that Parliament and the British people must be given the final say in regard to any agreement put forward, or that we just walk away or even remain within the European Union"

The only viable option when the end negotiations and are on the table or otherwise exhausted, take it back to the electorate to decide.