Grenfell Tower enquiry

When people criticise Health and Safety, and talk about bonfires of red tape and the evils of bureaucracy, they forget that there are other consequences to the ‘lighter touch’ regulation.

I thought there would have been regular fire inspections in a building like Grenfell Tower, but apparently, the fire inspection rules have become less stringent over the last thirty years.
Starting in the Thatcher years and continuing through Labour and coalition years the inspections have been taken away from local authorities and fire brigades.

Deregulation continued under New Labour with the privatisation of fire safety research and the introduction of risk assessments. The 2005 Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order ended certifi­cation by fire authorities and transferred responsibility for safety onto a combina­tion of employer, employee, occupier and landlord.

I’m not sure that stricter official fire inspections would have prevented this tragedy, but they might have done.

Thanks trisher.
I do think it is an important point and that the manufacturers need to be held to account.

That in no way lessens the impact of the subsequent failures and their devastating consequences.

MawBroon let's hope that the thread can continue in a reasonable manner.
There is bound to be endless 'speculation' and opinions on this tragic event and let's hope the Inquiry report will document the true facts and failures and that measures will be taken to prevent anything like this happening again.

We do not want to hear that phrase 'Lessons will be Learnt' either. We want to hear that action will be taken.

No point scoring Trisher, defence of a new poster being criticised comes naturally to some

If anyone is worried about their fridge or freezer and the risk of fire Which have a tool you can use to check yours. They listed 250 makes they considered fire hazards
www.which.co.uk/news/2018/04/check-to-see-whether-a-fridge-freezer-fridge-or-freezer-is-a-safety-concern/
The sniping and point scoring on this thread is pathetic.

It reinforces my view that GT threads are always a bad idea and that too many people don’t think it really matters because the majority of the residents were guilty of LWB

I started this thread in good faith being shocked and saddened by the unfolding revelations of the enquiry.
I know that nothing can make the deaths less tragic, but to read (I think) of 30 avoidable ways in which this loss of life could have been avoided or minimised made it somehow worse.
So no, I do not see whe GT(if that stands for Grenfell Tower) threads are always a bad thing I have no idea what LWB stands for and I do think that informed discussion is one of the things GN is about.
Dog whistles?
If facts are repeated which are fallacious, I can see a reason for deleting them, particularly if they risk being libellous or subverting the discussion. But this thread was started as I said in good faith not with the intention on my part of encouraging personal abuse or venting anybody’s spleen.

Well shall we just all get on with it then on the basis that we do think it matters to be as accurate as we can with the facts and avoid harmful speculation?

So derailing by anyone else - only me? FFS

Maryeliza you could have asked GNHQ yourself to remove the offending post and explained, in a courteous manner, why.

Instead, you have allowed your posts to become more and more enraged despite an apology from GrannyGravy and now your angry posts are directed at all, even if they are discussing a relevant, indeed integral, part of the Inquiry as I was doing and as Eloethan did by providing some useful information regarding that.

Trying to suggest that people don’t think it really matters is an outrageous suggestion - in fact your posts are in danger of derailing this important thread.

LWB? I have no idea of what that is and have no intention of googling.

It means low wheel base !

What is LWB? I did google it and found vans for sale

Those of you just making jokes and making fun on this thread are a disgrace. There is clearly nowhere on GN to have a grown up discussion based on informed opinion about GT. It reinforces my view that GT threads are always a bad idea and that too many people don’t think it really matters because the majority of the residents were guilty of LWB.

Good morning niggly ?

I rest my case!!!? Good morning annie?

Is googling the answer to all things, I remember a link stating Corbyn was responsible for the Good Friday Agreement

Or even from the msm as we have been told so many times on GN.

Even the Inquiry results may not be able to give the full facts as some witnesses are refusing to come forward and tell the truth.

And - you are not the fount of all knowledge although you may think so, especially if that knowledge is gained from googling.

? ?

Are you saying that everyone on this thread doesn’t need to google anything

There is a lot of erroneous information out there on Google and if you use other search engines.

I was thanking you for the link but it is obviously a waste of time trying to engage with you in a polite and reasonable manner maryeliza - as usual.

There you go again nn using the word opinions when I’m talking about facts - I take it you know the difference?

Actually nn I don’t consider myself academically and intellectually superior to the rest of you but I know I am to some of you

It’s irrelevant whether you were away when the DT article was published - there was nothing to stop you googling before you posted this time was there? Are you saying that everyone on this thread doesn’t need to google anything but just post what they want with any available facts being an inconsequential issue that we don’t need to bother out little heads with? Oh and of course anything we post that isn’t true won’t matter because it will be out there somewhere else in cyberspace - phew that’s all right then. So when you suggest we move on - is that on the basis that it’s not ok to spread false information or that it is ok? Do we as posters on a serious thread have any responsibility to try to be accurate or not?

What would be nice, would be if everyone on here could air their differing opinions, and that others, could perhaps explore in a convivial way the reasons for that opinion, instead of commenting aggressively, patronisingly and at times being downright rude, as lets face it all this attitude does is stifle civilised conversation. I'm know there are posters who consider themselves intellectually and academically superior to the rest of us, of course their politics are without question the correct way of thinking, but hang on, if you persist in ridiculing and treating us with barely concealed contempt, posting on here is pointless! Grandad,how do you know the extent of annies learning abilities?! you get more patronising by the the day, a pity you can't recognise this fact and understand how deeply unattractive this attitude is.

extra see in my last line.

in a serious thread like this it’s acceptable to ‘speculate’ about facts that are in the public domain
I was not speculating, I did not know and wanted to know. Thank you for the link maryeliza, I was not aware of that as we may have been away when that particular piece of information about the fridge came to light.

I think, as the source of the devastating fire, it is an important part of the investigation and the fact that so many domestic appliances and cars do catch fire with sickening regularity these days should be a major cause of concern. The manufacturers need to be called to task and regulations upgraded accordingly.

As for the tragic consequences, no-one is trying to divert from those and let us hope that the Inquiry Chairman has sufficient powers to bring witnesses to account and form an honest and true picture of the events that night.

Can we move on from GrannyGravy's erroneous post - yes, she could ask to delete it but presumably it is still out there on various sites on the internet too.
I am sure that GNHQ will be keeping an eye on the thread and would ask her to remove it if they see think it's necessary.