England, no way sorry

I'm not on Twitter either, Muffin, and don't get involved with big matters on FB, which for me is for cute kids and fluffy kittens.

I'm speaking of real life experiences, and to see prominent members of the SNP unable to bring themselves to support England in the World Cup is sending out a very poor message indeed of their attitude towards the English.

I just can’t take the World Cup seriously - I honestly don’t care who wins and I wouldn’t judge anyone’s choice of which team to support. There is so much corruption in FIFA that supporting anything to do with it seems to be joining in that corruption.

I admit I am supporting Germany. This is because I have fifty quid on them and am hoping to get it back. I can confirm I am a pragmatist and would still be hoping for Germany to win if Scotland had dragged themselves to the tournament...

I support Scotland from the terraces, not at Ladbrokes, I’m no’ daft

I am a lifelong sad football obsessive though, so I will refrain from an assessment of England’s chances in the thread. I will regret missing out on those odds if Harry Kane proves me wrong though...

We're not the least bit interested in the World Cup but quite surprised to see someone we know on local telly tonight.

Apparently his son is the England goalkeeper.

merlotgran he never thought to mention it???

nfk SAID "I don’t altogether understand though, those who wanted to break up the UK but stay in Europe, that being one of 27 is better than being one of 4*

The difference is that each of the 27 states in the EU is equal in that they have a seat at the top table, a power of veto, while retaining full control of their own domestic stuff.

In the Union of 4 nations that is the UK, there is no such equality. The largest Nation (England with 533 MPs) can outvote or overule the decisions of the 3 smaller Nations,(Scotland 59MPs, Wales 40 &NI, currently under direct rule from Westminster, a mere 18 MPs) even if all 3 of them voted in concert. Devolution of power, is power retained as the UK Government can rescind all or any part of the devolution settlements at any time.

As to supporting England in the World Cup, personally I have no interest whatsoever and will be supporting no one. Selfishly, I will be quite pleased if England is knocked out early on as we will then be spared endless coverage and chat about the whole thing. Sarah Smith was obviously just trying to stir it by asking the 'who will you support question' at the SNP Conference, while studiously avoiding asking delegates about the important issues being discussed. To my mind expecting Scots, of any political persuasion, to support their main rivals, is ridiculous. It is like asking Rangers fans to support Celtic just because they are both based in the same city. But what do I know? I have never understood the tribalism of football rivalries.

BTW - all this talk of 'near neighbours' reminds me that Dublin (192 miles) is closer to Glasgow than London (345 miles); Shetland is closer to Oslo (412miles) than London (650 miles). In fact, Brussels and Paris are much closer to London than most of the UK but we never hear of anyone wanting to unite with those close neighbours

None of those countries is physically connected to Scotland or the UK (unless you count the Channel Tunnel) so why would they be joined together in any other manner?

The point of the football link isn't the football, it's the attitudes on display. The question wouldn't even have been asked if Scotland didn't have a reputation for being curmudgeonly.

As for Rangers & Celtic, about which I know almost nothing as I'm not religious or a football fan - surely, despite their rivalry, if only one of the two was in the European Champions League final all of Glasgow would want them to win? Or would they not?

Thanks Muffin. I think the EU politians are studiously avoiding the position of Scotland if she wanted to stay inside the EU as an independent nation. I don’t think meeting criteria comes into it as several members states never have (apparently). Judging by the obstacles being put forward to us leaving the EU, Scotland trying to get in could drag on worse than Jardine v Jardine.

As a matter of curiosity, as I’m not well travelled, does anyone have experience of how the borders work between all the EU countries and non-EU countries on the continent? The only one I’ve seen is between Turkey and Greece in Cyprus and you could have walked around the customs post with relative ease and the coach we were on was waved through on a nod.

I’m not sure how much the NI border problem is being blown out of proportion.

I like the idea that Greece has equality with Germany Granny23, but I’m not at all sure how well it’s working in practice.

I agree that the four nations should be in direct control of all the domestic stuff. That would mean an English Assembly too. Perhaps that could be in Manchester! Then Westminster could just deal with defence and unimportant stuff!

The difference is that each of the 27 states in the EU is equal in that they have a seat at the top table, a power of veto, while retaining full control of their own domestic stuff.

Is that true though Granny23 ?

I’m not sure that all members are infact equal ( maybe some are more equal than others) and isn’t losing the right to
make our own decisions and losing control, one of the reason that many /most voted to leave ?

Also isn’t it true that Scotland, just like Wales and NI has its very own top table ? It’s us English that have no parliament of our own.

For the record . I voted remain and I’m glad that the people of Scotland saw sense at the referendum and voted to stay.

I think you will find if Rangers were in any Cup Final Celtic supporters would be cheering on the opposition. It’s not just a Scotland - England thing.

The EU border on the continent which I have used several times is the one between France and Spain. The border posts are totally abandoned and you just drive through. This is to do with the Schengen area more than the EU itself.

NfkDumpling
I've done all the none eu/ eu borders.
Hungary/ Serbia/ Albania/ Macedonia/ Bulgaria.
Turkey/ Bulgaria. Romania/ Moldover.
The biggest problem for lorries is that the countries they are coming from/ going to, haven't got the latest technology at these borders. That doesn't apply to turkey, though. Millions of euros were put into those borders when Bulgaria and Romania joined the eu.
The biggest holdups we have seen is on the Serbia/ Bulgaria borders. But, the vast majority of these lorries will not be coming to the uk.

Let’s face it, the Scots and the Irish (not NI) would far prefer to be ruled by Germany than by England.

Gillybob it has been explained to you that England has its own parliament...WESTMINTER IS an english parliament.The English Mp's far outnumber everyone else so what THEY vote for ALWAYS wins.Why cant people undersand that very simple FACT .Add EVEL to the mix and the other Nations cant vote on any English matters EVEN when there are knock on effects for the rest of us .
That is NOT a UNION .Its a very scewed democracy where one party/country always has the upper hand .

Sue

I can say without fear of contradiction that there is no way whatsoever that the fans of either half of the Old Firm would support the other half in the European Cup Final.

But that’s a sad discussion for another thread

I’ve always had to clear customs at the first EU border encountered when coming from outside the EU, but after that have been able to use the blue channel for the rest of the journey.

Im afraid (despite the fact “that it has been explained to me” ) I don’t agree with you paddyann there is no English parliament.

And why the shouty capitals ?

Sue and thats part of the problem ,you say you dont do religion or football .The fact is that there should be no religion AT football .The offensive behaviour at football act was voted out of existence by Labour and Tory MSP's simply as a two fingers up to the SNP who brought it in.
While it was around it didn't stop ALL the sectarian songs etc but it was a start .Now we have Rangers/unionists in black masks giving Nazi salutes and singing F the pope on weekends outside football grounds.So well done Mr Kelly for keeping Labour supporters happy and ryally peeing off the rest of the community !

Honestly Paddyann, without wishing to be offensive, I haven't a clue what you're talking about!! As far as I'm aware, Scotland, Wales and NI have their own parliament, Assembly/s (hopefully NI will at some stage sort out their differences!) without a single English MP to be seen. We however do not have our own parliament that contains only English MPs. We've had Scottish Prime Ministers, and cabinet ministers, and while we don't complain, there are times that we could perhaps be forgiven for wishing the Scottish MPs could go North and stay there!! Talking to my Scottish SIL I am somewhat reassured that not all Scots feel the way you do and actually feel embarrassed and ashamed at the venom that gets thrown at us as a nation, particularly this rubbish about football team support from your dear leader!

It has been said that when Parliament meets to discuss England only legislation, following EVEL rules, it is, in effect The Parliament of England. I do not think that EVEL is the best solution by a long chalk. It is, rather, a cobbled together, cut price, make do and mend solution, triggered by panic when so many Scots supported Independence and sent 56 SNP MPs to Westminster with only 1 seat each for Lib, Lab, and Con. The proper solution, of course, would be to have a devolved parliament for England BUT that would require elections, a chamber + committee rooms, offices, etc. and expenses/salaries for over 500 elected members. Remembering the furore around the cost of setting up the Scottish Parliament, I can't see much public support for this scenario, much simpler to use existing buildings and MPs

It has been amusing to see my own, new, constituency Conservative MP (English born, bred and resident) ejected from the chamber because he was a Scottish MP and bleating that he thought the EVEL rules only applied to SNP MPs.

Here is further information on EVEL: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33370064

I believe the rivalry between Celtic and Rangers goes far deeper than the rivalry we see between our local teams like Sunderland and Newcastle . There is a rather nasty religious element attached which is just so wrong in sport .

Why cant people undersand that very simple FACT
Because it is in fact not a fact - sorry - FACT

This from Wiki:
The Parliament of England was the legislature of the Kingdom of England, existing from the early 13th century until 1707, when it became the Parliament of Great Britain.