What next from Trump's America?

We should also remember that whereas Remain was supported by the leaders of all EU ountries. Commonwealth countries and our other trading partners, Leave was supported only by Vladimir Putin , French fascist Marine le Pen and Donald J Trump.

suzied Yesterday 21.31

The fact is Trump supporters are in the main white and who do not have a college education. Why is that stereotyping? A stereotype is created out of a factual base. Sorry if some people find that truth uncomfortable.

And the fact is that Leave voters are also less likely to have been educated at 'college level'. suzied's comment applies equally to Britain.

I wasn't actually thinking abut educational level when I made may original comment. It was more the response to an emotional, yet fact free and meaningless, slogan...

It seems to me that, far from 'making America great again' Trump is busily making it into a state to be despised by civilised nations.

And this morning, we see the wonderful Melania sporting her tasteless jacket. The criticism of this was dismissed by Trump as being 'fake news' surprise, surprise. They are trash, no other word for it. I agree with you lemongrove, the US electorate had a hard choice between Trump and Clinton, I think it was more a case of Clinton lost than Trump won. Had the Democrats got their act together and not given into Hillary C's demands; her feelings that it was 'her turn' then perhaps the USA, and the rest of the world would not be dealing with this ghastly man and his grasping family. Talk about lining their pockets.

I voted remain, though not wholeheartedly as I saw it as a bit of a rich man's club - and I think we should remember we walked away from our Commonwealth friends without a second thought. The EU then took up those markets and imposed some very stringent trading conditions on countries like Mauritius.

Despite my misgivings, after a lot of thought, I decided to vote to stay because I thought the risk of becoming even more reliant on trade deals with countries like America, China, Saudi, etc., and the possibility of environmental, employment and health and safety rules being watered down, was too big a risk to take. Given the current chaotic situation, I wish we had never had a referendum. We should have stayed in and campaigned to change the sort of things that many of the EU countries are now complaining about.

I don't think it is very helpful to imply that people who voted leave did so because they are uneducated. We are divided enough as it is, without these sorts of remarks being made. Perhaps those who have received a higher education, have had comfortable jobs and lifestyles and who travelled abroad on a regular basis appeared to those in poor circumstances to be benefiting from a system that excluded them. Whether that is true or not is, in some ways, irrelevant. That is what they felt. And not everyone who voted leave did so on the basis of immigration. When both sides stereotype each other, this will only bring resentment and division.

I also don't think it's very helpful referring to Corbyn as "Saint Jeremy". He may not be to everyone's liking, but I don't think there is any need for sarcasm. I'm not a fan of Mrs May and her ministers and I criticise what they do but I don't see the point of calling them silly names.

All those people that thought it was a 'hard choice' between Trump and Clinton need their head examining. Being fooled into thinking that the 'motherhood and apple pie' egotist Bernie Sanders would have been any use is also pretty stupid. Hillary was the most qualified, most able, most decent candidate for the Presidency, by a mile.

As with our own disastrous Brexit, the US media whipped up populism to suit their ratings, and they are partly responsible for the US election disaster. But also, it was the US' blatant racism, and unashamed sexism ( from men and women) that gave us Trump. If you 'didn't vote cos I didn't like Hillary', you are partly responsible for this, and your grandchildren will be the ones who suffer ( yes, even the male, white, middle class ones.....)

I agree with much of what you say Eloethan and to those GN members who keep up the sneering ‘lowly education’ remarks, they don’t do themselves any favours at all.
Brexit is for other threads in any case, and to hijack this thread (which is about a very serious and tragic situation for the children and their parents who have been separated, in some cases in the recent past, never to have been reunited)
Is a pretty low thing to do, simply because they don’t want to accept the referendum results.

Millbrook for many American people it was a hard choice, they view Hilary Clinton ( and Bill Clinton) in quite a different way.If there had been a different Democrat candidate,Trump would easily have lost.

I don't think it is very helpful to imply that people who voted leave did so because they are uneducated.

It's a statistical fact. Eloethan, not an 'implication'.

It doesn't mean that everyone who voted Leave is uneducated; like Jalima, I know a few well educated people who did; it just means that more of them are.

And, in relation to this thread, I didn't actually say it. It was the Leavers who brought it up.

Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, don't forget. If they'd had a different electoral system she'd probably be in the Oval Office right now.

(And she would never have worn a tasteless anorak)

Then stop repeating it MaizieD

lemon. I'll do whatever I please on this forum.

That includes pointing out that 'I didn't say it'. Just so that it doesn't get thrown back at me in the future.

Saying it or repeating it ( the tired old smears) is the same thing in the end.
You may as well just say ‘it wasn’t me miss, it was her that said it!’ ‘But I do agree with her, miss!’
You MaizieD and others will do as you like no doubt, but I and others will also continue to point out that you shoukd save your Brexit ire for a more appropriate thread.

Despite my misgivings, after a lot of thought, I decided to vote to stay because I thought the risk of becoming even more reliant on trade deals with countries like America, China, Saudi, etc., and the possibility of environmental, employment and health and safety rules being watered down, was too big a risk to take.

Well said, Eloethan. My sentiments exactly. Thank you for putting it so well.

Republicans should “stop wasting their time on immigration”, Donald Trump tweeted on Friday, as House GOP leadership continued to work on a subject that has riven their party.

Republican leaders have twice been forced to postpone final voting on a moderate immigration bill, first until Friday and then to next week, as negotiators make a last-ditch push for support.

They are trying to persuade a conservative bloc to approve bill that includes $25bn for Trump’s border wall – a campaign promise which he has insisted Mexico will pay for – and a path to citizenship for young undocumented immigrants brought to the US as children, known as Dreamers. A hardline bill, without provision for Dreamers, failed on Thursday.

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/22/donald-trump-republicans-immigration-house-senate-red-wave-separations-dreamers

GillT57 - thank you! In a nut-shell! Your last post sums up for me exactly why Trump is a clueless, unthinking, self-absorbed, naive, unfeeling, arrogant and dangerous President. He reacts to situations all the time, never considering the consequences of his actions.
A good summing-up.

As for Melania's coat, I have my own views on that but would get shouted down by the majority on here.

It's quite obvious those sore losers will resort to slurs even when presented with facts.
I'm not sore, Day6 (although I admit to being very shocked at the time of the result).
It is a case of admitting defeat and trying to look on any positives now.

As others have said, most of the people living in America are economic migrants or are descended from people who were economic migrants, ie who migrated to America for a better life.
And, amongst the later ones of the last century, Trump's mother.

and paternal grandfather.

Where would America be without these immigrants?

Still looking in vain for any positives about brexit

"It is a case of admitting defeat and trying to look on any positives now"

I agree Jalima
I just wish all those who voted remain would adopt the same attitude.

Having said that, many friends who voted to remain expressed surprise at the result but haven't dwelt on it or spent the time since then fighting it, shunning their Leaver friends or accusing them of being thick because their choice was different from theirs.

The divide is a media/online construct. There is no hatred on the streets for Leave voters because of the result. If there is, those doing the hating have a problem.

I was perplexed by what an interviewee (I think a man working for or with experience of the US immigration department) said on Newsnight tonight. He was very critical of Trump's handling of the family and children issue and said that the whole process has been chaotic because, in effect, Trump really doesn't understand what he is doing.

He said - and this is what perplexed me - that it was unlikely to be a simple and speedy matter to reunite these children with their parents because of the complexity involved. He even implied that some children may never be reunited with their families. I don't understand why it is so complex. Surely there are records of the adults in custody, with details of their children and where they have been placed, and vice versa?

The more I hear of this, the more appalling the whole thing seems.

The interview that I heard this morning on radio 4 're the children being reunited with their parents said pretty much the same thing Eloethan. The reasons that they gave was was because absolutely no records have been taken of the children; no fingerprints, no database records of either the children or their parents and no tracking of where the children or their parents have been sent to. And as some of the children are as young as 9 months old, they're unable to tell officials at all of their heritage before being sent thousands of miles across America by bus. Beggars belief.

That this could happen not in wartime fleeing the enemy, not following a natural catastrophe but in a 21st century modern democracy yes chew it does beggar belief. It is an act of pure evil and results from the complete dehumanisation of those crossing the border. All those officials obeying orders, shipping off babies and children and no one thought about keeping records? Whatever happens now in reuniting the children - and who will actually do anything about that - those children are surely scarred for life.

What did they intend doing with the children that no records were kept of who they were and who there parents were? I t really does remind you of Nazi Germany.

Actually Nazi Germany kept very good records. The question is actually in the present tense - what are they going to do with the children they have already placed in care hundreds/thousands of miles away from their parents? I don't expect anyone with any power really cares. Do U?