What so do thing will happen in Europe in the EU breaks up

I think the move is already afoot and Brexit is only adding to the mix.

Radio Four chunters on in the background most of the day in our house and I seem to remember a discussion with an Italian minister proposing the break up and re-formation of the EU on a completely new basis. This to be arranged before the breakup in an organised fashion. Several other countries seem to be agreeing to this. I remember thinking it sounded like a good idea the way it was being proposed. So much happens behind the scenes of which we know nothing.

What didn’t get said but what was implied, was that there would be fewer countries. In other words reverting more to the original ones. I fear this would mean Russia stepping in if the remaining (assume eastern) countries weren’t organised enough to set up their own organisation.

(How I wish I had a memory!)

Apologies for making a mess of the title- but I'm sure you got what I meant!

Nfkdumpling- can you really see Yugoslavia being re-united for instance? Surely, the EU did that job of making us ONE big partnership to hold up to the large nations like USA, Russia and China- both in terms of trade and security- and at the same time retain our own particular culture (let's say 'cultures' as each country of the EU has many cultures within- same for tiny Switzerland and huge USA or Russia) languages, specialities, etc.

Yugoslavia - I was looking this up earlier - only created after WW1. The current individual countries were the original ones.

If anyone was ever in doubt about the intentions of the so called "trading" EU organisation to dominate completely all member states, absorbing entirely the individual Nation States, then look no further than the CSDP Policy of the EU. It disguises it's militaristic intent by including peace-keeping operations in it's statements however hidden in the term "conflict prevention" are a multitude of intended future sins.
The EU business/organisation is not only intent on trapping Nations through a single market, and customs union into the four pillars of their hidden agenda by embedding these in every trade agreement and treaty, it is now intent on subsuming NATO and it's role as peace-keeper, in order to hide it's military machinations in the form of an EU Military Force: an Army, Navy, Airforce. This is where the Country's of the EEA are being lead. The very thing that the EU was formed to prevent, militarisation, with the most powerful Country still: Germany no doubt holding all the cards.

I have cut and pasted some snippets from the EU Europa link at the end, which should terrify everyone.

“The Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) enables the Union to take a leading role in peace-keeping operations, conflict prevention and in the strengthening of the international security. It is an integral part of the EU's comprehensive approach towards crisis management, drawing on civilian and military assets.”

“In order to enable the European Union fully to assume its responsabilities for crisis management, the European Council (Nice, December 2000) decided to establish permanent political and military structures.”

CSDP capabilities

“The world is changing and Europe faces an increasingly complex and uncertain security environment. There is a growing demand for the European Union to become more capable, more coherent and more strategic as a global actor. The EU disposes of a unique array of instruments to help promote peace and security where needed.”

"By 2025 we need a fully-fledged European Defence Union." - President Juncker, State of the Union Address, September 2017

eeas.europa.eu/topics/common-security-and-defence-policy-csdp/48178/defending-europe-improving-military-mobility-within-and-beyond-european-union_en

As for the break up of the EU, the consequences for the individual EEA Country's is freedom. Most will ignore the EU's negotiate yourself out stance. A number of the EEA Country's are not as disciplined or honourable as the UK, and will simply say to the EU sue us see how far you will get!
Many being broke anyway by their very membership of the EU.
They will reinstate their own currencies, and they will trade freely setting their own tariffs within the WTO. Which is really what we should do. The EU is not a Country or a State, it has no Nationality, it is not a Government, it is not an elected body. It is a trading organisation, the sooner we "get that" the better. They control EEA, EFTA Country's by our own complicity, because we are unable to free ourselves from their hidden regulations and the embedded nature of the four pillars as part of access to the common market and customs union which means free movement. What will people sacrifice in terms of real freedoms in order to be able to walk across Europe without a passport, or move goods ....unbelievable surrender of basic freedoms, for what, easy travel arrangement, and not having to fill in customs forms ...completely unbelievable gullibility.

When the euro fails, the Country's will eventually free themselves from the trading group they joined and became entrapped in. A trading group, that present's itself as a Democratic, elected body, and people have fallen for it! It is a Dystopian nightmare, that it seems some believe is real. Some have woken up and see what the EU really is, a deception on such a grand scale that it largely goes unseen for what it is, an insidious group being paid large sums of money by members to access something more easily (single market and customs union ) that is accessible to them anyway without the false middleman, the EU. As the edifice crumbles despite the EU attempting to become political and militarised, as we see from their own words in the cut and paste above, there will be freedom in Europe because many EEA members are starting to realise what is happening, not just the UK.

Nick Clegg's interview today said it very clearly- the vote has changed the post war world we know forever.

A very very dangerous time indeed. Even if we (unicorns and all that) can get Trade Deals for ourselves... the break up of Europe, and the fragmentations of European countries to old lines- and probably the UK as we know it too - and the rise of the far right- leaves us all, in or out of the EU, in a very very dangerous place indeed.

Or perhaps change had already happened and that's why "the vote" did too. It's not as if the post war world is the same as it was seventy years ago.

Those who are hoping /think the EU is about to crash and burn read today’s news from the BBC
EU signs its biggest free trade deal with Japan www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317

Your concern being in Switzerland is to ensure that your protected and not drawn into a Militarised and Politicised EU as an EFTA. If in future your agreements and treaties not only include regulations and conditions of access to a single market and customs union, with as they are now embedding the four pillars in trade, but also add military conditions then all EEA members are in trouble, particularly Switzerland, you may have remained 'neutral' for Centuries as a brokerage Country, I doubt that will work with the EU, the power they hold over you is that 66% of Swiss trade is in the EU single market. Switzerland is already in the wringer over freedom of movement, no renewed deal's if you enforce the will of your people on freedom of movement restrictions. How much more will it be when your young people are in compulsory call up to the EU Military? I know the EU see this as a way of taking unemployed young people off the streets to stop resistance and backlash to poor living conditions, poor education and social services, along with mass unemployment all breeding grounds for radical views and resistance to the member Country's they live in. Whilst this does not affect Switzerland at the moment, the people of Switzerland clearly see that it might reduce their standard of living if free movement continues. The EU realise that developing extreme political views are on the rise, Young people, vulnerable and susceptible to political activism as deprived, disenfranchised members of society. Conscription, the EU's answer. Build and army, navy, airforce, and build all you need in EEA Country's creating a military hardware industry which is exactly what they were formed to prevent. Ironic don't you think?

It’s funny how Brexiteers like to use a version of “ project fear” against the EU.

Project truth if Barnier is to be believed!!!

crystaltipps. It is scary. Why do you think the UK is leaving.

Rose coloured specs are all very well, until they get broken and then you see perhaps too late what was hidden from you. In the case of the EU there is nothing that is not available if you want to see it, read it, and look at what it means. It is not rocket science, it is deceptive, undemocratic and you can investigate it yourself.

The U.K. Govt is far more undemocratic at the moment - only takes a bunch of threatening bullies for the policies to be altered!

Nobody, Brexiteers or non Brexiteers, knows what will happen in Europe if the EU goes belly up in the future.If only it had stayed as it was with a smaller number of solvent countries within Europe, simply being a trading bloc.
It has over extended itself like all empires do,with the same results eventually.
Perhaps it will re-form in a simple version with only trade on the menu and fewer countries, or perhaps it will cease to be, and every country arranges it’s own trade deals with other countries ( it can be done!)

'Rose coloured specs are all very well, until they get broken and then you see perhaps too late what was hidden from you.'

never a truer word AllyG - for sure.

jura you will never be reconciled to leaving the EU, so all I hope is that time, the great healer, will be kind to you.

I can't help thinking that if Margaret Thatcher was in charge of Brexit, we'd be out already!

probably out last year!

Thank you lemon, how kind. And you are right.

Actually, as much as the current situation grieves and upsets me- and will probably affect me financially even more (already down 50% of income) ... I personally will be totally fine, and so will my DDs and GCs- as we all have dual nationality, and GCs also have access to Irish nationality.

DDs work in extremely good jobs, one a VERY high level- and all the doors will be opened to them. They speak fluent French too, and have a good knowledge of German and Spanish. We have the possibility of running a large B&B with courses, raise our own beef, lamb and chickens, and all fruit and veg. So not a single worry for us- we are very very lucky.

But it does not stop me from caring about the country I adopted in 1970, became a citizen of in 1972, where I was very happy and integrated, with so many good friends. Where I studied hard, got my B.Ed.Hons and taught for so many years- and where OH totally dedicated his whole life to NHS. About the open, tolerant attitude to differences, which is often missing in my other country, and in France too, just next door. Yes, I could cry for the GREAT Britain which I so loved.

Well said lemon grove, the overextended EU is the architect of it's own demise. The EU is clearly of a different mindset with this treaty with Japan. As we have seen with the Japanese free trade agreement there is no freedom of movement or customs union hooks in the treaty, which means it can be done if the EU have the will to do it. This gives us more power in our negotiations with the EU to press for a no strings deal. This deal between the EU and Japan has the potential to be good for Brexit. It also opens up our free trade deal with Japan once we exit the EU. Japan needs car and electronics markets and they don't produce enough of their own food, free trade and a truly competitive market with Japan must be good. Rather than driving Nissan out of the UK, we are likely to be able to encourage Japanese electronics and car manufacturing on a larger scale than now into the UK. German BMW and VW will not be happy since they will be tied into the EU tariffs. Also the German car industry is in some trouble with emissions and not enough research into the electronic car market, so it will be interesting to see what happens next. Competition is good for Business the Country and for consumers.

Jura, I think I should say "don't cry for me Jura". The future is the twenty first century and good. I fear for Switzerland, I really do. Your status as 'neutral' is sadly compromised with your reliance on the single market, and the poor deals negotiated have you hooked. Your dependence compromises your neutrality and your plebiscite governance is going to react sooner or later. Your personal situation is good, enjoy.

This Country is and always has been a trading Nation, we know how to do it. Fear not, the NHS which you constantly mention is not underfunded it needs reorganising for the modern needs of the citizens.

It's a new era, new thinking is needed, and fearless people to embrace the opportunities, the people of the UK do that well.

I'll cry if I want to ...

good song that was. We can go anywhere we want, multi nationals, multilinguals, multi talented ... adaptabble, open, tolerant, lol ...- don't cry for me for sure.

If the EU is so deceptive and conniving, how come all the information is so readily available? Also, we now have a free trade deal with Japan courtesy of EU, that will go on Brexit, can't see how they will suddenly want to negotiate another one with the much smaller market that is the UK, easier for them to move to the EU.