If there was another EU referendum Part 2

MaizieD. How childlike.

Oh I think I am getting the drift of what an anarchist looks like crystalltipps!

"As for the MP's, no they do not have the luxury of having their own view."
This is completely wrong - of course they can have their own views, why have MPs at all then if they are just robots toeing the party line - they could just have automatic voting - no debates etc. How ridiculous. My MP stood on a pro- Europe platform and was voted in with a huge majority in a strong remain area. She is elected to represent her constituents. Maybe you'd like do away with MPs and just have a totalitarian government with no deviation from the party line. Sounds a bit Stalinist to me.

What does an anarchist look like?

The leavers' mantra of "we all knew what we were voting for" is absurd. Even now, more that two years later, absolutely no-one knows the terms and consequenses of brexit, but a lot of us, including folk who voted leave, are beginning to get a better idea- and it is utterly horrifying, which is why some leavers have serious regrets.

And still it goes on, moan, whine, whinge, doom, gloom etc etc.
When will it stop I wonder? Next year, when we leave the EU? In 3 years, in five years, never?
It must seriously impact lives all this misery about ‘what may happen’.
Wait and see before you knash your teeth and rend your clothes.

Exclusive data provided by Google reveals that between the 23 and the 29 of July Chagford searched for Brexit more than any other UK community. West Devon - the constituency in which Chagford is situated in - voted to leave the EU in the Brexit Referendum in June 2016.

A strong majority of 54% voted to leave, equating to 48,000 votes. However, in stark contrast a major survey carried out by Devon Live in April found that 15% of leave voters in Devon would change their decision in a new referendum.

www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/one-place-been-googling-brexit-1847882?_ga=2.105768838.42283280.1533821632-1837077369.1533821632#

It seems that the more leave voters actually learn about brexit, the more likely they are to now support remaining in the EU.

We don’t have to wait and see to know that this whole leap into the dark exercise has already cost billions, divided the country and weakened our political system. Still waiting to find out what the benefits are.

Suzied, you clearly need an explanation of Party Politics and MP's.

At the snap General Election it was largely fought on a Pro Brexit mandate with other issues on the Mandate as well. A mandate is a list of promises to the electorate, you vote for us and we will do these things.

Both Conservative and Labour stood for election on a Pro Brexit mandate. The Conservatives went further they added Brexit would be fulfilled deal or no deal, with the statement "no deal is better than a bad deal" so those who voted Conservative knew exactly what sort of Brexit good deal or no deal and no deal means WTO.
Now the mandate is Party Political all MP's stand on the same mandate for their Party. They get into Parliament because they are Conservative's and support the mandate or they belong to other Party's and the same apply's.

With Brexit remain and leave personal views, have been allowed to be discussed debated in Parliament cross party, some votes called divisions MP's have even been allowed to vote against their Party, however on a critical three line division the Whip will be applied, or the MP will be told it will be applied if they do not vote with the Party line. The Whip is:

Whips are MPs or Members of the House of Lords appointed by each party in Parliament to help organise their party's contribution to parliamentary business. One of their responsibilities is making sure the maximum number of their party members vote, and vote the way their party wants.
Other whip duties
Whips frequently act as tellers (counting votes in divisions). They also manage the pairing system whereby Members of opposing parties both agree not to vote when other business (such as a select committee visit) prevents them from being present at Westminster.
Whips are also largely responsible (together with the Leader of the House in the Commons) for arranging the business of Parliament. In this role they are frequently referred to as 'the usual channels'.
The Whip
*Every week, whips send out a circular (called 'The Whip') to their MPs or Lords detailing upcoming parliamentary business^^Special attention is paid to divisions (where members vote on debates), which are ranked in order of importance by the number of times they are underlined*.
Three-line whips
*Important divisions are underlined three times - a 'three-line whip' - and normally apply to major events like the second readings of significant Bills*.
*Defying a three-line whip is very serious, and has occasionally resulted in the whip being withdrawn from an MP or Lord*. *This means that the Member is effectively expelled from their party (but keeps their seat) and must sit as an independent until the whip is restored*.
Small majorities and whips
*The job of the whips becomes more important if the majority of the party in government is small*. *This makes it easy for the government to lose in major votes*. *Therefore, it's crucial that the whips on both sides (government and opposition) try to get as many Members to vote as possible*.
Commons Library briefings
The House of Commons Library produces briefing papers to inform MPs and their staff of key issues. The papers contain factual information and a range of opinions on each subject, and aim to be politically impartial.
The Library has produced a paper that gives a brief history of the origins and role of the Government and Opposition Whips in the management of parliamentary business, and an overview of their current functions and duties.

www.parliament.uk/get-involved/education-programmes/universities-programme/university-teaching-resources/the-role-of-the-whips-in-parliament/

crystaltipps I thought you might be able to tell me that!

Suzied, you clearly need an explanation of Party Politics and MP's.
allygran you clearly need no lessons in being patronising. I have studied politics and know all of the above thank you. If you think all MPs meekly agree and follow the party line at all times you obviously are living in a fantasy world.

Varian you are comparing apples and pears again!
You say:
Exclusive data provided by Google reveals that between the 23 and the 29 of July Chagford searched for Brexit more than any other UK community. West Devon - the constituency in which Chagford is situated in - voted to leave the EU in the Brexit Referendum in June 2016.

This is Chagford in West Devon you say:

A strong majority of 54% voted to leave, equating to 48,000 votes".

You then say:
"However, in stark contrast a major survey carried out by Devon Live in April found that 15% of leave voters in Devon would change their decision in a new referendum".

This is a survey that has not been defined as to what method it used to survey nor does it say what size sample was surveyed. So until we have that information it is considered spurious.

Even with the information, comparing Chagford in West Devon to the whole of Devon is fallacious.

Suzied. Play nice!

Play nice! says the person who has made rude comments to several people on the last couple of pages alone

SuziedIf you have studied Politics, all I can say is that you have no excuse then for not putting the fact's on line, rather than spurious or misleading statements that you must have know are not correct. You clearly knew when you said that the MP's had freedom, that it is only to a point, and then the Whip is either threatened to make them tow the Party Line or it is applied which expels them to Independent's until the Whip is restored, which means they cannot vote. Because the Party stands for election it's MP's as well on the Party mandate. Come the crunch those promises must be kept by the Party or they have to explain, and risk rejection of the electorate that voted for them on their promises. MP's may also be deselected by the Local Party for the next General Election. If that happens that's usually the end of their career in Politics. You notice all the remain MP's on both sides of the House, Conservatives and Labour who had been very vocal had gone quiet for five week's before they went on their Hols
The Whip has been applied. Anna Soubry definitely had her wings clipped by her grassroots party, who is another control of MP's behaviour and keeping them towing the Party Line, this is where we get that term from. Collective promises are made via the mandate when MP's stand for a Party at a General Election.

Suzied so childlike.

Suzied well done.
Ally you often use the tactic of playing the man not the ball, yet accuses others for the same thing.

Isn’t “play nice” childlike?

Those who voted Leave would still vote Leave I suspect. I certainly would.

The negotiations have been hampered by a) EU Bureaucrats b) people who oppose the government c) the government, d) Remain supporters.

But who didn't expect them to be long drawn-out and full of stumbling blocks?

If anything, our dealings with the EU have made me feel we made the right decision to get out.

And how long can we carry on discussing the subject? Remainers have kept the pot bubbling. Most others have lost interest and just want the best settlement possible for the UK - not the EU.

Some of those who voted Leave would still vote Leave because some people never learn from their mistakes.

A strong majority of 54% voted to leave, equating to 48,000 votes. However, in stark contrast a major survey carried out by Devon Live in April found that 15% of leave voters in Devon would change their decision in a new referendum.

This is not comparing "apples and pears" - it compares 2016 "apples" with 2018 "apples". You do not need a degree in statistics to understand this.

How do you know it's a mistake? Do you have a crystal ball?!!

who didn't expect them to be long drawn-out and full of stumbling blocks?
- the leaders of the leave campaign

It becomes more and more obvious every day to those who look at the evidence that leavers made a very big mistake.

If your grandchild was about to do something very dangerous would you just let him take the risk and "wait and see" or would you do your best to prevent a disaster?

And still it goes on, moan, whine, whinge, doom, gloom etc etc.
When will it stop I wonder? Next year, when we leave the EU? In 3 years, in five years, never?
It must seriously impact lives all this misery about ‘what may happen’.

Well said lemon
The future is not ours to see. We can try to predict what may come, just as we can try to predict the winning lottery numbers. I sometimes feel all these people who just KNOW life is not going to be worth living after we exit the EU ought to spend more time using their powers of fore-sight (incredible that they have this gift) on the Lottery. They thought the UK would vote to Remain. They got that wrong too and haven't stopped whinging since.