If there was another EU referendum Part 2

Neither do you Varian. Neither do you!

You don't seem to have learned anything

Maizie, try it....research can be quite demanding, and the RSI damage isn't permanent and you can learn so much!

Don't start that old chestnut again Bridgeit, so boringly predictable. As I have told you before. I will post whatever I think is useful to the discussion, if you don't think it does then don't bother reading it...simples!

I do notice though that you rarely write any contributions nor do you bother to research and cut and paste to add to the overall discussion.

About 1,000 people opposing UK's withdrawal from the EU have attended a rally in Bristol calling for a second referendum on the final Brexit deal.

Saturday's event at Colston Hall was organised by the campaign group People's Vote.

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable, who spoke at the rally, said: "The Government are making a mess out of Brexit - but it is not a done deal."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45154973

Have to go out now , Allygran1,I would like to read your own personal opinion on issues rather than read an article, quote, speech that you feel affiliated to.

Too quick! Oooh dear, typos...

? very quick MaizeD

Goodness; who knew that you coukd get RSI from copy and pssting...

Maizie I have gone through this with you before. I for one am suffering repetitive strain injury to my Brain not to mention that my fingers are worn down to the knuckle from typing the same information for you.

Why do you keep going on about Privatisation, please, put your information up so we can see where your information is coming from.

I have previously mentioned the NHS

What you Leavers don't seem to be able to take on board is that the NHS has been deliberately starved of funds, in the name of 'austerity', by the recent tory governments. this had nothing whatsoever to do with Maastricht or the EU. it was tory policy. Strangely enough, Labour managed to find adequate funding for the NHS, despite the EU.

If we leave the EU we will be told that there is even less money available for the NHS as privatisation gathers pace. If we leave the nationally funded and run NHS is a dead duck.

It was not about printing miney, it was controlling debt

Well, it was really. Governments with a sovereign currency don't have to go into debt, they can issue their own money and owe nothing to anyone.

I read your links and had a google around and, like harmless, as far as I can see very few EU countries have achieved the Maastricht 'targets' over the years, with no comeback from the EU. Also, the purpose of them was to consolidate confidence in the euro and make it a 'sound' currency. Which we don't have, so the EU wouldn't be particularly bothered about us...

I think that that 'Maastricht limits' were a convenient excuse for PFI rather than a compelling reason.

mostlyharmless
The only reason I mentioned this was because others feel that the only saviour of the NHS is the EU when it was the initial cause of the problem that is now bankrupting the same and its purchasing directive opened the NHS up to privatisation.

I find it quite dismaying when the following is quoted as reasons to remain They’re more concerned about job security, employment rights, whether the NHS will survive, the Irish Border, the ability to travel, study and work in other European countries, queues at Dover, continuity of security arrangements, environmental protection, maintaining food standards, potential food shortages, food price inflation, whether the Government will continue the subsidies to deprived parts of the country etc etc.
Because with regards to job security and employment rights. The U.K. currently enjoy better job security and employment rights than those mandated by the EU.
I have previously mentioned the NHS
The Irish Border is an issue, but was held to be a bit of a ‘red herring’ by the EU by NI politicians.
There should be no reason why Brits should not travel, study or work in the EU. It was done for centuries before the EU, only sour grapes would prevent it in future.
At least if the Government didn’t subsidise poorer areas we could vote them out. As it is the U.K. is now getting less and less from the EU as subsidies are being diverted to Eastern European countries and we cannot change that.
Environmental and food protection again in majority of instances is higher than mandated by EU.

What dismays me most is the fact that those who make these statements do not acknowledge that many of the EU directives are derived initially from U.K. law, particularly in terms of employment law which our unions fought for. That our food standards are mandated by U.K. law and that some people think that the rest of the population are so fickle as to accept lower standards of anything.

Varian quoting somebody from Mumsnet cuts no ice.
It’s a lot like Corbyn’s ‘Andy from Andover’ stories.
We had the referendum, the vote was to get out, and get out we will.

According to your own link above joelsnan, most EU countries just ignore this rule. No country has ever been penalised for exceeding this deficit rule.
Why is it so important to you?
This thread is about how we would vote if there was another referendum.
I doubt many people are interested in this obscure rule which is universally ignored.
They’re more concerned about job security, employment rights, whether the NHS will survive, the Irish Border, the ability to travel, study and work in other European countries, queues at Dover, continuity of security arrangements, environmental protection, maintaining food standards, potential food shortages, food price inflation, whether the Government will continue the subsidies to deprived parts of the country etc etc.

Check out the ONS link which shows UK still has to report levels if borrowing etc. emanating from Maastricht treaty.

By using PFIs subsequent governments have been able to keep the actual debt of the PFIs (now running into multi billions) off the deficit sheet.

MaizieD
It was not about printing miney, it was controlling debt

www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/eugovernmentdeficitanddebtreturn/2013-10-02

Is that the same John Redwood who has been criticised over advice to pull money out of UK?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/13/labour-accuses-john-redwood-of-talking-britain-down

johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/12/04/that-treaty-deficit-maastricht-and-austerity/

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/maastricht-treaty-25-years-european-dream-trade-echr-neoliberal-a7388796.html

It is worth taking a look at Mumsnet, where it seems a large majority voted Remain, but unlike the blinkered leavers on GN, some on Mumsnet are now quite openly expressing their regrets, like Sar501, who posts-

"I was a leaver as was my DH. Both of us now regret our votes and would vote remain if there were to be a second referendum. I suspect my SIL feels the same way as well. I’m sure we are not alone and I suspect that there will be more people who regret voting leave than the other way around. I absolutely dread next March and although my vote was only one vote I contributed towards the outcome of the vote and I will have to live with the consequences of that. I admit it took me a long time to decide which way to vote and I wasn’t sure even on the day. I wish I had more time to decide."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3331932-Majority-now-support-remain?pg=2

No, the EU didnt't force UK to use PFI, what it did was to prvent the government from borrowing to fund capital investment projects

I'm not quite sure what you are referring to here, Joelsnan but it is not true that the EU prevents state funding of utilities or the NHS.

This was before the EU referendum when TTIP was being negotiated. Of course, Trump knocked it on the head when he became president.

fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/

This is a document referred to in the Full Fact article which explains the exemptions the EU was negotiating:

trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2015/july/tradoc_153614.pdf

As you can see from the URL it came from the EU.

The EU has, and never did have, no control over how the UK raises its money.
In fact, the UK could 'print' money via the Bank of England to fund the NHS; just like it 'printed' money for quantitative Easing (some £450billion to date). No need for extra taxation or borrowing.

Perhaps you know more about this than me joelsnan But as far as I understand this restriction on borrowing doesn’t really apply to the UK as we are not in the eurozone. No fines have ever been levied on countries (even those in the eurozone) who exceed this so-called borrowing “limit” anyway.
It seems a strange thing to be concerned about as it has never applied to the UK.

The problem is that if brexit is permitted to go ahead, many British businesses will be struggling to survive, and so the obvious move of raising corporation tax may not even be a possibility. Even the referendum vote on leaving the EU has already cost the UK economy billions and if, as we are being told, we actually leave the EU next March, the cost to our economy is likely to be catastrophic. So where is the extra taxation ever going to come from to fund our essential services?