If there was another EU referendum Part 2

I have previously mentioned the NHS

What you Leavers don't seem to be able to take on board is that the NHS has been deliberately starved of funds, in the name of 'austerity', by the recent tory governments. this had nothing whatsoever to do with Maastricht or the EU. it was tory policy. Strangely enough, Labour managed to find adequate funding for the NHS, despite the EU.

If we leave the EU we will be told that there is even less money available for the NHS as privatisation gathers pace. If we leave the nationally funded and run NHS is a dead duck.

Maizie I have gone through this with you before. I for one am suffering repetitive strain injury to my Brain not to mention that my fingers are worn down to the knuckle from typing the same information for you.

Why do you keep going on about Privatisation, please, put your information up so we can see where your information is coming from.

Goodness; who knew that you coukd get RSI from copy and pssting...

? very quick MaizeD

Too quick! Oooh dear, typos...

Have to go out now , Allygran1,I would like to read your own personal opinion on issues rather than read an article, quote, speech that you feel affiliated to.

About 1,000 people opposing UK's withdrawal from the EU have attended a rally in Bristol calling for a second referendum on the final Brexit deal.

Saturday's event at Colston Hall was organised by the campaign group People's Vote.

Liberal Democrat leader Sir Vince Cable, who spoke at the rally, said: "The Government are making a mess out of Brexit - but it is not a done deal."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-45154973

Don't start that old chestnut again Bridgeit, so boringly predictable. As I have told you before. I will post whatever I think is useful to the discussion, if you don't think it does then don't bother reading it...simples!

I do notice though that you rarely write any contributions nor do you bother to research and cut and paste to add to the overall discussion.

Maizie, try it....research can be quite demanding, and the RSI damage isn't permanent and you can learn so much!

You don't seem to have learned anything

Neither do you Varian. Neither do you!

Honestly alyg, I don't know how you've got the patience to constantly be dragged over the same old chestnuts!! You deserve a medal!!
The EU is,absolutely fine for the wealthy, ambitious politicians, industrial magnets, Mandelson, Blair el al! and while I appreciate that money is all important, virtually taking the place of God, there are still people amazingly who actually do have other priorities, honesty, compassion to name but two, most of which, if not all the EU seems sadly lacking. For the non moneyed unambitious of us, yes we do exist! its an awful organisation and rotten to its core!

It is so easy to Cut and Paste articles but they are ALL biased and very selective of any facts or truth, the Guardian is blatantly "remain ", most other sources have been "Brexit".
I'm one of those who have not changed my mind, there are lots of issues that I dislike the EU for but ON BALANCE it is better to be in Europe, we should be on the inside influencing not on the outside carping.

Nothing Allygran1 posts is going to change my mind because the vision of Brexit promoted during the referendum campaign was blatantly misleading and now discredited. We are not going to get a cherry picking deal vaunted by the Brexit lobby that is very clear. For the UK a Norway type deal where we are allowed privileges but have to obey EU rules is the worst of all deals, Norway pays dearly for their "independance".

If it does turn out to be no deal there will of course be trade agreements with every country including the EU but it will not be the free, easy trade we have been used to. The one thing I agree with Rees Mogg on is that it will take a generation to see the benefit. MAYBE.

Allygran1, you have at last hit the nail on the head
ie Boringly predictable, ring any bells ?

That's one of the problems with the EU, we have no influence! David Cameron proved that on his ill fated trip before the referendum. The so called parliament is a rubber stamp affair totally in hoc to the Commission who call all the shots. How can one voice influence anything?! Nothing will change while other members are reliant on the EU for their financial well being. What a clever trap for them to fall into and they have! They have actually been warned to tow the brexit line or else risk their handouts; recipients of vast pensions, Mandelson etc have been warned to do the same, support the EU or else!! Influence?!!!! A flea on the back of an elephant, an irritant perhaps, but nothing more!

I am amazed at the number .of inaccurate statements in threes responses almost straight out of the columns of the Mail. I do wish we could get rid of the bigotry and have a sensible debate. GN would be far more interesting and less self opinionated. We can all learn by a listening to opposing views as long as they are accurate and not sheer deceitful propaganda.

Yes thank you Marthabeck, I agree.

The biggest problem IMO with Brexit is that no matter how much we All say or beleive our voting decisions were correct the truth is we simply did not/ do not know.

I am beginning to agree that there should be a second vote when we actual know the details & consequences .

This is an article in today’s Guardian written by a woman who is one of those who will be greatly affected by Brexit.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/14/brexit-ruin-lives-british-citizens-europe-peoples-vote?CMP=share_btn_link

Nigglynellie, well said, concise and hit the nail on the head!

MarthaBeck would you like to contribute then? If you feel the debate is poor, your additions would be welcome.

What would you like to say?

Bridget of course you knew! You are intelligent even though you and I do not agree, we both know how to research. Your not telling me are you that you did not research anything before you placed your remain vote? Well I did, and a lot of what was said by the Remain campaign helped me make up my mind that we had to get out of the EU or go down with the sinking ship. Remain is the establishment and a mainly elite one at that. Leave is the grassroots who live the life imposed on them by EU rules. Most of us are not cafe culture or wine bar chattering classes. Just people trying to do our best for our families, children and grandchildren. Living the life imposed by and unelected trading organisation determined to homogenise, neutralise 28 Country's and failing as we can see by the economic state of the 27 and the political extremism that the EU has managed to create through it's 'freedom's" regulations and directives in every trade agreement.

Allygran1, you along with the rest of us must have realised that there would be negatives & positives for both remain & leave. The vote was taken with very few facts & a lot of speculation, theories, emotion,patriotism, discontent,IMO this was not the best time or scenario to take an in/ out vote.
It’s like shutting the door after the horse has bolted.
We did not have cold hard facts to hand,ok there may have been some who had a bit more insight into how it might be, but there again there was an equal amount saying the opposite. I beleive the country has lanced a boil & it should now go for a 2nd vote so that the outcome can be accepted by all.

Bridget you and I will not agree on this matter. Whilst I accept your point about negatives and positive for both remain and leave, I cannot agree with you on the need for a second vote. We have already had two votes, one advisory the referendum, that result was taken on advice by the Government and acted upon to leave the EU. The second vote a GE which had both Conservative and Labour party's standing for election on a Brexit mandate, both party's got in one as Government re-elected and the other as Opposition, both supporting Brexit. By the time of the GE those who did not feel sufficiently informed at the referendum were surely very well informed on Brexit, the EU the types of negotiations that had gone on in the interim, both in Parliament, and in the media endlessly. If people had not by the time of the GE understood that they thought leaving the EU was for them or Remaining in the EU was for them then I do to know how much information people need to make a decision. At the GE had they wanted to spurn Brexit then they should have voted Liberal Democrat or one of the other Party's that clearly stood on a Remain in the EU mandate. There were options to the Pro Brexit Party's.

The Government got into power with a reduced number of MPs but with an increased share of the vote, greater than it had been since the 1980's for any party.

Had we not have had the GE then some would be more ready to accept your argument that people made a mistake and want another go...I find that weak but could consider even that sort of weak reason. However we had a period between the referendum and the GE when Brexit was the only thing in the Media, the negotiation, the EU the whole subject was covered, therefore to me there is no excuse for not being informed by the time of the GE and as there were both pro and anti Brexit party's and the option not to vote at all, there is no excuse for not knowing what way to vote on Brexit by then.
These are my reason's for not supporting a second referendum.

I dont my think my post mentioned people making a Mistake.
I said we voted without actual facts, that IMO is the Mistake

I’m not sure why allyg assumes the GE was all about Brexit when it wasn’t. May said when she called the election it was to provide “strong and stable government”. It didn’t. Quite the reverse which is why we are in such a mess.