Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

you do realise Muslim women dont wear any head wear inside the home with family or in a female only environment?

most muslims do Baggs. It is cultural, not religious.

* either a) a deliberate effort to alienate the rest of us or b) horrific instance of female suppression. *

Its neither.

I would imagine the reasons are as many and varied as people are.

* Other People Tribes*

worrying.

and again, cultural, not religious.

most muslims do Baggs. It is cultural, not religious.

Do what?

oldbatty: Other People Tribes. worrying.

Indeed so. That's why I felt rather hurt when my house had been called an "Others People's" house. My neighbours were embarassed but felt they had to obey the older woman, even though they didn't see us in the same light that she apparently did.

Religions are cultural.

" Baggs Thu 16-Aug-18 19:58:44

Religions are cultural."
Yes, they adapt to fit the culture in which they live at the time.
We live in an orthodox Jewish community and attitudes are similar to those in Islam, but not so extreme.

you do realise Muslim women dont wear any head wear inside the home with family or in a female only environment?
[sigh] honestly, oldbatty do you think the rest of us know nothing?

That is what I find worrying, in fact, that it is suppression of femininity, which is only to observed by men in the family. This places a certain blame on women for arousing men in a sexual way rather than on the men for being unable to behave in a civilised manner around women who are not shrouded and covered.

Casual racism is one form of racism. It refers to conduct involving negative stereotypes or prejudices about people on the basis of race, colour or ethnicity. [sigh]
Islam is not a race.
I have a good friend who is Muslim; he is white, born in England.

What should I do when I encounter casual racism?
When it happened to me I challenged her and she looked shocked and said it didn't apply to me, she was very fond of me.

The adaptation idea is interesting, fennel, and not something I'd thought of so thank you for that.

What I meant though was that religions and expressions of them arise within cultures so that I see culture as encompassing religion. I wouldn't say something is cultural not religious, therefore, if its expression was particularly dominant in one religious group.

I think I know what I mean! Hope it's clearer than mud.

This is connected to Richard Dawkins' idea of cultural christianity. He calls himself a cultural christian even though he's an atheist. I get that.

I kind of get that, but is that rather a form of plagiarism?

Baggs, you wrote : 'One can still dress modestly and, in fact, most westerners do.' - to which I replied 'most Muslim women do'.

As for the 'cultural Christian' , it is very similar to the 'cultural Jew'.

honestly, oldbatty do you think the rest of us know nothing?

sorry, sigh all you like but people who think it is acceptable to tell a woman she is prettier without her burka may actually be so stupid as to not know this is outside clothing.

Also all this talk of barriers and non verbal communication would be easily overcome face to face in a home environment.

I'm not sure that Dawkins connects to Christianity in any meaningful way though, jura and Baggs

Thanks, jura. Quite so but I was responding to a post that mentioned increasingly liberal style of female dressing in Western culture. And what I meant was that someone who found that liberal style not modest enough did not have to cover her face to be modest herself or to protect herself from someone else's immodesty.

I do not think that it was a woman who decided that showing one's hair is immodest.

I'm not sure that Dawkins connects to Christianity in any meaningful way though, jura and Baggs

Why do you say that, jal? I'd have said he connects to it more than many who claim to be christians. Have you read The God Delusion? He'd have to be pretty connected in a meaningful way to have written that.

I do not think that it was a woman who decided that showing one's hair is immodest.

I agree.

No, I haven't read it, but I think that to be connected in a meaningful way to Christianity one would have to believe in Christ.
Believing his teachings are a good way to live is different altogether.

So was the mother-in-law of my Oxforshire next-door-neighbour (an immigrant from Pakistan married to her cousin) being racist when she said her grandchildren couldn't come into my house because they were not allowed, according to her, to go into the houses of "other people", i.e. non-Muslims?

Yes, Baggs, we had a similar situation: we've always got on OK with our (Pakistani) neighbours. The mother was unwell & hubby went round & did some gardening for her. Another muslim walked past, sighed loudly & said "you'd have thought she could've got a muslim to do that for her." !!

Cultural, not religious.