Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

You have to hear the full speech ( it was on PM on radio 4 yesterday.)
Several European countries ban face coverings, the UK doesn’t ( this really needs a thread of it’s own.)
It isn’t a requirement of Islam ( full or partial face coverings)
It’s a cultural thing, depending on the country of origin.
Women who wear it by choice, and those who have no choice in the matter are banning themselves from certain jobs ( quite a lot actually) and from fully integrating into society. By banning this form of dress would we be freeing women to do more and be more?
Boris Johnson is a journalist as well as a politician ( rather better at journalism) and would therefore say what he thinks a lot of people agree with ( from all political parties, not just Conservatives.)
Should he have said what he did ( pillar boxes and bank robbers) no, of course not, since he is part of the government, not simply a journalist.
He thinks that women dressed this way in our country look ridiculous ( I agree with him there) but being in the job that he is, he should have used more diplomatic language.

Men/women are not allowed into a bank and some shops wearing motor cycle helmets or hoddies covering their faces. So why should these women (could be a man who would know with only their eyes showing) be allowed to cover their faces. I they should be banned personally. I like Boris he says it like it is and why should he have to apologise to our excuse for a PM weak wimpy May.

Several European countries do ban face coverings but I am glad that this country does not believe it to be necessary or right.

Boris Johnson knows that such a comment will go down well with a large percentage of the population - that's why he said it - to enhance his political profile. I believe the majority of people in this country would like to ban face covering and will have a sneaking admiration for him going against the so-called "pc police".

Muslims are a very easy target these days and I feel such rude comments just stoke the fire of racism and do nothing whatsoever to bring communities together. In fact, whether you agree with covering the face or not (and I can't say I'm a great fan), if a community is isolated and despised and has people in prominent positions adding fuel tot he fire, that community will turn in on itself even more than is presently the case. Why is that a good thing?

As far the comment that "when we are in ..... , we abide by their rules," when we were a colonial power in places like Africa and Asia we didn't adopt their manner of dress. European colonialists forced Africans to wear western style clothing, and British government workers and officials in India did not adopt the traditional Indian style of dress.

I think it is irrelevant whether a form of dress is cultural or religious. It is virtually impossible to differentiate between the two. Many religions interpret their scriptures in different ways and form their dress and other social codes accordingly.

Just as I said earlier up thread lemon he said a lot more than the 2 lines being reported. He even defended their right to wear them which isn't the same as thinking they are right.

I agree that the women do look ridiculous dressed in long black robes with eye slits or mesh and personally I think they know that they draw more attention by wearing them.

Also as Nicenanny has said, you or I would not be allowed into a shopping centre wearing a helmet, balaclava or hoody covering our face so what is the difference?

Why is it racist to say something looks silly (if in your opinion it does?).

My DD said she is frightened to ask a regular group of burka wearers to leave her coffee shop when they take up the outside seating area and eat Greggs food that they have brought in. She would have no hesitation of telling you or I to leave if we did the same thing.

Well said lemongrove and lets not forget the subliminal patriarchal message that goes with the wearing of such a garment. A covering that reminds us constantly how male control plays out in such an extreme way in societies where some of the wearers emanate from, very at odds with western values. Yasmin Alibah Brown, a female Muslim journalist is very outspoken against them for most of reasons mentioned, always quoting the well worn but very apt "when in Rome" quote.

Boris was wrong to use such a lack of tact or diplomacy he can't expect to have any sort of meaningful debate about the matter when his preamble to stating they shouldn't be banned, includes quite a few insults.

It's worth noting, as lemon has stated, that quite a few Eu countries have banned face coverings, countries we would regard as liberal. Banning, quite possibly a step too far, but they look so incongruous in a Western society and clearly there are countries in mainland Europe who feel they are a barrier to integration.

The majority of these girls wear the Burqua not because they have to. They have culturally approriated the traditional dress of the Arabian Peninsula firstly to define them as different and secondly to virtue signal. The majority are British Pakistani women where even in their country of origin this garb is not worn and few follow the faith as prescribed.

The ones with the eye mesh does not allow the wearer any peripheral vision, could be very dangerous in certain situation, lunatic bike riders in pedestrian thoroughfares, crossing the road etc.

For me the issue is not about the clothing - that's a vast subject encompassing male dominance, the right to choose and differing cultural issues and social tolerance of same.
What gets me hot under the collar is the complete lack of judgement shown by many politicians. All this speak as I find rhetoric that is trouble enough in a domestic setting. I do wish there was a bit more restraint, a bit more thought and just a general 'engaging of brains' before mouths being opened. These people are supposed to be leading us in a very troubled world!!!

Malala was on the front of The Sunday Times magazine this week looking very good in tunic, trousers and Pashmina type scarf loosely worn to cover her head. Such an inspirational young woman and a great role model, battling adversity to win a place at Oxford. I understand the "modesty" and not objectifying one's self argument, but to such an extreme where all essence of the person underneath a tent like structure is eradicated there has to be a better way. Women like Malala manage to carry off modesty without turning themselves into a "non person"

The more I see Boris the more i think he is on the Autistic Spectrum, probably Asperger's syndrome. He is apparently very intellegent but has very poor social skills finding it difficult to read social situations and inadvertantly uses inapproprite language with no intent to harm or upset.

I think requiring him to apologise is totally inappropriate.

As has been pointed out Islam requires women (and men) to dress modestly, it does not require women to wear a full face veil.

I don't like to see it as when I was working I saw so many women dressed this way being brought in by male relatives to sign documents and I felt very uncomfortable. As if I could see their faces I could have judged whether they were signing willingly.

I have no problem with the burkha or head scarf (in fact I have defended a young girl who was being berated in the street by a man because she was wearing a headscarf) it is the full face veil I object to.

Joelsnan, you could be right about Boris because it is very odd that a highly intelligent well educated man could use this sort of language when discussing a vexing subject. We all have our opinions, but it's the calling of inappropriate names, which apart from being insulting are irrelevant that I take issue with! Its the sort of thing you'd expect an 11 year old to say, not a journalist, former Foreign Secretary (diplomat!) an experienced politician! It's so strange, either deliberate to cause a furore or?!!!

Joelsnan Boris most certainly doesn't have Asperger syndrome! He is a most skilled and articulate manipulator of people and public opinion. I wish he'd give up politics and go back to writing. He's much more erudite than the tabloids present him. He's a smart but profoundly misguided cookie.

Jane10
How are you convinced he does not have Aspergers, this is a multi faceted condition with different degrees of presentation.

Oldwoman70 a burka completely obscures the face, often the eyes as well. Just mentioning it as there seems to be confusion about what is being discussed. It is most likely that it was the burka BJ was referring to as it does look like a black post box.

Esspee You are, of course, correct - what I meant was the chador.

Perhaps because I used to be lead clinician with an adult autism diagnostic team and with all the qualifications and experience that that would require Joelsnan

Grandad wrote:
"Just returning from three days in London it would seem that the Niqab and Burka headdress are becoming more prevalent in our society especially in the capital."
I've noticed that too, in muslim countries that I've visited in the past.
It may be 'cultural', but also the result of more fundamentalist Sunnis taking over from Shiites.

He's a smart but profoundly misguided cookie
And he knows perfectly well what he is saying.

Oh yes!

The whole point of the article was to defend the right of women to dress how they please. I really do not find likening someone to a letterbox offensive, and covering faces and concealing identity is what robbers do.
We are tolerant of other people's customs; they frequently do not extend the same courtesy to us.
But of course part of the fuss is orchestrated by those in his own party who do not want him for leader.

My objection was to his automatic joking about it because they are just women. Is he making any witty comments about Sikh men wearing turbans or the Jewish men who have those long ringlets?

Well said eazybee.

I’m thinking the same as eazybee.
Off in a bit of a tangent but how come there is such a fuss about this and yet when Prince Phillip (DOE ) said similar or worse , many commented on what a funny jolly old wag he was ?