Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

Boris Johnson has opened up discussion on how we feel about women who hide their faces. That's the bottom line. Religious, cultural and sexist aspects come into discussion of this and gives rise to righteous comment.
However, how sexist is it for men in full face balaclavas to be absolutely not OK even if it is their choice yet its absolutely fine for women to cover theirs to exactly the same extent?
We're human, we need to see faces for normal, comfortable social communication to take place. Inability to do this is intimidating. Gillbob's example is a good illustration.

"Gilly" if it is the cafe's reasonable rule to only eat foid bought ther just tell them politely that is the rule. By not doing so it is creating resentment and increasing the fear. But really if nobody says a thing why is it the fault of the women?? Just get a few more table notices stating the rule and point it out if anyone ignores it.

How many, I wonder, are teenagers going through that rebellious, look-at-me-I’m-different-time of life?

I can see a certain advantage. Get out of bed, put on black sheet. Walk out of door. Sorted!

As has been repeated on numerous occasions it is not a requirement of Islam to wear a veil.

Whether we realise it or not we "read" a lot from peoples facial expressions and as a result are uncomfortable when we are unable to do so. Wearing the veil is surely more a symbol of subservience to a man or to a state - many rich women from Arab countries who wear the burkha at home will visit London and wear western clothes

Old woman
They get on the plane, disappear into the loos and emerge all made up and wearing western clothing! Been there, seen it.
It’s extremely difficult, I find, to interact with someone I can’t see, I can’t imagine how uncomfortable it must be to wear the whole caboodle.

I think his comment was totally outrageous - deliberately straight out of the Trump mode of politics. It is a calculated attempt to appeal to the prejudiced and ignorant - but I construe it as inciting racial hatred. Imagine being told you look like a letter-box or a bank robber. He is a very clever man, and knew exactly what he was doing by making such comments. We are living in a very divided country, and statements such as this risk widening this divide even further.

Oldwoman70 you may know many Muslim women or not I do not know. I do happen to know quite a few, as colleagues, friends or family. The thing is they are all ordinary women. Some choose to wear 'Western' dress others prefer to wear more traditional Islamic dress and a very few choose to wear a full veil when in public. They are from a range of backgrounds from very wealthy to poor a Mosque mice! The mode of dress across that group is mixed.

We are often more worried or even fearful about things we don't know or understand, things that are unfamiliar. We can also be fed all kinds of tales about things that are not quite true by people who want us to stay fearful. If we all work together to understand and know all different people from all walks of life we would realise we all have far more in common than we ever thought. There are good and bad in all strata fo society ..what we wear is an irrelevance..it is how we behave that matters.

A minority of Muslim women in Britian wear the burkha, so it's not really that much of an issue - most burkha-wearing women in London seem to be tourists from Saudi Arabia. So why did Johson choose to focus on this, under the pretext of a concern for women's rights? I don't think the choice of words was 'clumsy' - it was very deliberate, and designed to give out a message that ridiculing Muslims is acceptable, under the guise of 'humour'. Johnson's lovable buffoon persona is wearing thin - the naked ambition is showing through, and he knows how to appeal to the right wing of his party.

The coffee shop is an international brand name PECS they have a large sign stating “that only food bought on the premises may be consumed..... “ etc.

My DD has pointed the sign out to them so many times she has lost count . She feels that They are inviting her to confront them which she has since been told by senior management that she is not to do for fear of racist repercussions. So they have won.

He is no better than a "shock jock" who boosts radio programme ratings by saying outrageous things without a care for how they might endanger people. He is also, I gather, in breach of the Ministerial Code that regulates what paid work ministers do after leaving their role. We have had virtually no immigration from the part of the world were it is common for women to cover their faces. Syrians and others from that part of the middle east don't wear them and neither are they common in the subcontinent. In London I always assume they are visitors spending lots of oil dollars on expensive clothes and jewellery - very good for the economy. Johnson has a long track record of making offensive, racist remarks to a wide variety of targets. Does he bloody care if it encourages thugs to pull headscarves of Muslim girls going to school. No - he only cares about himself to the exclusion of the rest of the human race. A seriously flawed individual who is no friend of women's rights.

It's Boris being Boris.

There's a leadership election brewing, and judging by the vox pop interviews on national TV last night, the remarks have a lot of grass roots support from the people eligible to vote for him.

Someone’s probably mentioned this, but the ‘letterbox’ garment isn’t a burka. It’s a niqab. A burka is a complete covering. (I have no idea how to spell these words.)

This is getting really silly and has nothing to do with headscarves at all. He was referring to the complete “pillar box style” by whatever name it is known . The type that covers the entire body with just an eye slit or mesh to look through .

I am no BJ supporter btw, I just happen to agree with the piece he wrote .

Good old Boris, he says what most people think.

I have not read the whole thread so apologies if someone else has posted the fact that a senior Iman has said Boris Johnson was right to say what he did, and didn't go far enough. The Iman also said that the burka is banned in the Kaaba - the holiest place at Mecca - and that they are hideous ninja like garments. I am all for people wearing whatever they like but I have to say that I find being near anyone swathed from head to foot in a black tent like garment is intimidating and worrying, given that at least one terrorist has left this country with his sister's passport, wearing a burka. It is a cultural choice, not a religious requirement as has often been said, and why any woman wants to fight for the right to dress in such a garment and reduce herself to a state of medieval invisibility in a mystery.

I can’t stand BJ, but I must admit I agree with his sentiments, however clumsily or offensively put. I think it is an outrage that women have to wear this offensive garment because of men’s wishes. Not only do they look ridiculous, I think they look sinister too. If it their own choice, then that is fine. We are all so afraid of saying what we think nowadays, and thinking this way does not make people racists either.

I do not agree with the OP. I think BJ always knows exactly how offensive he is being and, as a narcissist, wanted to be back in the headlines before launching his latest leadership bid. The fact that the majority of the grass roots Tory party agree with him is one of the many reasons I am not a Tory.

Gillybob - I m glad you agree with BJ that the garment you find scary should not be banned in U.K.
When in a children’s clothing department without GD wondering about sock size I spotted a child about the height of GD. Since the two young women with him wore the niquab I simply looked them in the eyes and asked their opinion on sock size. We discussed it quite easily, communication is not that difficult after all!
Pamela - who cares what (some of) the US military says? Their favourite mf expression is already heard far too often.

Boris said he didn't agree with banning any sort of face veils. Fine . He then went into his rude comments about bank robbers and pillar boxes. Fine too if you are only a journalist but this man, it seems, aspires to lead this country! He was enough of an embarrassment as Foreign Secretary please don't inflict him on us as PM!

Thank you, LuckyGirl for your long and thoughtful post earlier today. There's an interesting letter in the Times this morning from an imam which argues that there is “no Koranic legitimacy” for the burka, and it is “a nefarious component of a trendy gateway theology for religious extremism and militant Islam”.

I would be embarrassed to say “ and most grass root Conservatives agree with him” But then I would be thoroughly ashamed to say I was a Conservative( and use the NHS which they are clearly dertermined to privatise) ! What about orthodox Jews or Amish people! Who next? If its part of their culture and religion who has the right to be so offensive- Bo Jo and obviously Conservatives thats who. He always displays his racism. Hes playing to the far right just like Trump. If I were younger I would leave this country, I am quite ashamed to be British at the moment!

The fact that the majority of the grass roots Tory party agree with him is one of the many reasons I am not a Tory.
I think you may find that many people in the country may agree with him about this particular topic, regardless of which political party they support MaryHoffman

A seriously flawed individual who is no friend of women's rights.
Possibly, JessM - but do you think that women wearing such head covering are doing so because of their rights or because of pressure from the men in their family?
In which case, should we not be fighting for their rights in this country, regardless of what other restrictions other countries may impose?

I wish more people I know had actually read the article. I heard it read out in full by Vanessa Feltz on Radio 2 yesterday and was astonished. He was arguing against a ban on burqas. Along the way he expressed what I feel is perfectly legitimate distaste for the expression of male dominance they represent. In both positions he’s speaking for the majority of Britons, whatever the BBC may want to believe. What was unfair about his words is that he targeted the burqa-wearer for ridicule - not the patriarchy which forced her into it.