Boris Johnson's Latest 'Gaff'

To call women in certain clothes rude names is and never will be ok.
I used to think BJ was a laugh but now he is dangerous. He is deliberately manipulating racial and religious hatred. Others will copy and possibly in the street. He should lose the whip. This was not a gaff

Not BoJo’s finest journalistic moment definitely. I read an interesting article today about how more women are choosing to wear the burka/ niquab as a response to islamaphobia - if they are identified as Muslim they may as well go the whole hog and hide their face - a reaction to increasing hostility in society. It used to be more of a Saudi tradition, but now women from Pakistan / Bangladesh choosing to wear it. I think face covering shouldn’t be allowed where it might be a security issue - airports, schools, courts, hospitals , banks etc but if it’s a woman’s free choice, no problem if they are just going out and about.

Boris is positioning himself as the British Trump. He's seen how DT gets away with those type of comments and thinks he can too.

In the other somewhat ambiguous thread on GN "have clothes ever done you any harm", someone has posted an extract in which a writer proclaims that he has never had any harm done to him from women wearing burkas, only from men in suits. Strange analogy, many men have to wear a suit for the workplace, so that comes across as a bit of a ludicrous comment imo and one I would take issue with. Burka wearing Samantha Lethwaite, aka as "The White Widow" has done quite a lot of harm not only here in Britain but in other countries particularly Africa, where I believe she was behind the awful massacre of many in the Nairobi shopping mall. She popped up again a few weeks ago to say she was planning a bombing campaign on the beaches of Spain during the height of the holiday period, so lets hope that those plans are foiled. Burka wearing Safaa Boular, Britain's youngest female terror campaigner has just been jailed, fortunately her murderous plans never came to fruition. Then there was the burka wearing man who tried to flee the country after murdering WPC Sharon Beshenivsky. Whilst I don't disagree that harm to people has emanated from the suit sector at times, it seems to me their transgressions have manifested in a financial way, as opposed to the harm to people from a MINORITY of malevolent burka wearers, who have caused fatalities.

However, moving on from such a spurious argument. I'm not sure Boris would give a monkeys about the opinions of what he looks like, in fact he'd probably welcome them because that's the nature of free speech. Free speech is a basic tenet of a Western society. In principle I agree with that but with some caveats. Given the sensitivity around religious issues I thought Charlie Hebdo were wrong to publish the puerile and insulting cartoon of Mohammed and it certainly wasn't worth the outcome. That's my opinion and I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me because the counter argument is that in a free western world, there should be a freedom to mock and insult in the spoken or written word. I do think Boris, as a politician should have couched his comments is a slightly more diplomatic way. Nevertheless the Burka is a ludicrous garment and looks incongruous in a western world. Back in the 70s when I was working in London, the Burka just wasn't around, except on the Saudi women who would fly in and out but be briefly around in the West End. They were such an oddity, they would often reduce anyone who came across them into a slack jawed incomprehension of what an appalling sight they were reduced to a non person, enveloped in a hideous black tent, like an over sized black crow and they were an object of pity because even back then we know they were controlled by a patriarchal bunch of misogynists. Now, if that isn't still the case, we are told it's a statement, one that seems to spell out we don't like your western society and whilst I agree it certainly has it's flaws. Nevertheless from what I've read that those of that mindset who fled to Syria to live the "Islamic fundamentalist's dream" and survived to tell the tale found out that life in a western world affords them at least the freedom to criticize every aspect of it, the countries that they felt they could no longer live in, but nevertheless returned to when it all went tits up out in the Middle East. Similarly, the wider population should also be free to criticise the burka, it is contentious and insults women. I would also accept that maybe women with false pneumatic breasts in the Katie Price vein insult women in a different way because they parody the female form and reduce the image of women to a postcard type joke in an equally insulting way. Many will disagree with that, it's just my opinion, but we are allowed to have them!

I totally agree with Boris Johnson. His remarks were taken completely out of context as is usual for the press.
I believe that it should be banned. I hate seeing them completely covered up.

No way should he be made to apologise. This is supposed to be a country of free speech but of course it isn't. We're far too concerned that we might upset someone and we have got to be so PC about everything.

Well said, Babyboomer 52. Boris Johnson has said so many things which many find offensive, and he's changed his stance on Brexit to suit his own agenda. I find him self-seeking and unprincipled. He seems to care only for his own advancement.

If its going to a money pit tribunal how long will it take them to decide that the eye opening on a burka is indeed letter box shaped and about in the same position as the slit on a red post box and that both are similar shapes.

When we visit Muslim countries, we have to dress to suit their views so why don't they dress to suit ours? It is very one sided and we are far too tolerant in UK. You should be able to see someone's face in all situations but mainly for security!!

I think what I object to is the fact that we seem to have come to accept people in the public eye being rude, insensitive & dishonest. Boris did this on purpose in order to have media attention focused on him. He’s an embarrassment and too much like Trump for my liking, though he’s brighter I suppose.

An interesting & thought provoking read Terribull

Ladies/Gents - I'm honestly shocked and horrified by some of the comments here. 'Walk a mile in someone's shoes'. Since when did this beautiful country of ours become intolerant, unkind and damn right bigoted? How dare we criticise someone else's culture? These views are just ignorant and I've decided to unsubscribe - I think I've read enough to know I don't want to be a part of this forum any more. It's a big world out there and the more people hold these views the more we become divided and full of ignorance and hate. I want to live in a tolerant and fair society, where difference is celebrated and where we can learn and love different cultures and people. Call me a dreamer but we should all be striving for a peaceful world!!

Have you been on here long Brigi?
Rather early to unsubscribe.
Where is the country you describe...not here, and never has been and not any other country either!
Every culture is criticised by another culture ( just saying.)
The place you describe is Paradise, which we may go to ( or not) someday.

This is just what I was thinking ginny. Prince Phillip is noted for coming out with his merry quips and people find him funny. Me included. Why all the fuss about Boris? PC brigade gone mad.

I have been out all morning so have only just seen the post by PECS at 9.43. In reply I would say that, of course they are all "ordinary" women, just like any of us.

In the course of my job I came into contact with many Muslim and Asian people and have friends in those communities. I have had discussions with women from these communities and I have asked why some of them wear the burkha, the most frequent answer has been because they are told to by their father/husband/brother.

As I have said before I have no problem with the chador or the headscarf - but from the conversations I have had it seems the burkha is a garment used to keep women subservient.

Do we have any posters who wear the burka or similar clothing? If not, why is this the case?

The recent comment by BJ brought back memories to the years before living in my present property where I had a neighbour whose partner made frequent trips, concerning his work, to Jeddah SA. One of the stories he brought back, concerning that country, that it was not unusual on flights to a European country to witness ladies who had boarded in coverage, as described by BJ, to enter the toilets half way through the flight and emerge minus that they wore on entering but now wearing fashions what might be seen on a Paris fashion house catwalk and minus any hair and face coverage. No it was not for passenger entertainment. Which indicates that in the UK it is choice and not an enforcement.

Oh you are so right sarahellen we had a young Iranian guy work for us for years (lovely he was too) he and his very westernised wife travelled regularly back home to visit family . He told us that the captain on an aeroplane often announced when they are entering Iranian airspace and that women should cover up .

I really think the media must be having its strings pulled from somewhere because the airtime given to both this and the Cirbyn issue is quite frankly ridiculous. When the news comes on whatever company i am in the same respinse is uttered.OMG not this again, with all thats going on in the world they choose to hype a bit if name calling.

"How dare we criticise someone else's culture"

I dare to criticise someone else's culture when it involves ritual mutilation of babies (male and female), forced marriage, and the subjugation of women; all of which I find deeply offensive and inhumane.

Live and let live is a good motto, but it cannot be limitless.

Anniebach it is the covering of the face that bothers most people. It is a sign of exclusivity. These women want us to know that they do not want to know us. I live in London and we see many burqa clad women. I was an early feminist and I am outraged that women wear this imprisoning ugly uniform. It shrieks female repression to me.

Most of my flatmates over the years were Muslim. I will pass on something that once came up in conversation one evening when other Muslim friends of ours were over.

The group who were together that night were all born and raised in the UK. They all said the same thing: their parents were all individually pretty liberal about dress amd behaviour, but the same problem kept coming up in class after class of girls, in communities across the city and country.

The problem was (and perhaps still is; this was only a few years back) that one family would decide their daughter was to wear the hijab or even the niqab. The rest of the parents of similar aged girls would feel unhappy about this and not join in.

But then there would be the rumours and the snide remarks from older community members about the other girl being more modest, more pure, a better Muslim. And these older community members would be the ones deciding who was most attractive as a potential wife.

So the pressure would build and build, and first one girl and then another would be told by her parents to start veiling. Amd soon all the girls would be in hijab or niqab, or burqa, depending on how it had all started.

In a community with such heavy value placed on marriage and ‘honour’, you only need one particularly strict family to effectively impose a new standard of dress and behaviour on the young girls of the community.

How many people who are discussing this actually read the article? He did not actually liken them to bank robbers; it is a bit of a leap to say he did. He did say they looked like letterboxes which is his crass humour. He actually feels this is a form of oppression because he hasn't got the imagination to think a woman might feel more comfortable being completely covered. He doesn't want the style of dress banned, he wants the right not to have faces covered when he's dealing with these ladies in his surgery. The reaction by the press is completely hysterical and there are so many worse things going on in the world to be reported.

Nobody comments on how stupid he often looks
But we do vickya - hence that photo would not have been in the msm for all to see.

But what he is wearing is not a manifestation of his religion nor is it indicating that he is possibly being repressed by others.

wellingtonpie: the point you missed is that BJ does NOT agree with the Danish ban?